Podcast Series 2, Episode 15 “Outer Octaves”
A discussion on the three forces and the ensuing structure they created, exposing three hidden clues. Ones that will make it possible for us to define the structure of Gurdjieff’s Holy Sun Absolute and our’s of the Universe.
All diagrams referred to in this episode together with the transcript, can be reviewed here as you listen: https://thedogteachings.com/podcasts/series-2-episode-15-outer-octaves/
Listen to the podcast
Diagram of Everything Living / Step Diagram
4 Boundaries, 3 Segments
Holy Sun Absolute Six Forces
Click here to view Podcast transcript
This is a series of talks about objective consciousness, an objective universe, and an objective way to wake up.
It is primarily based on the works of George I. Gurdjieff and Russell A. Smith, and aims to cut through the swathes of subjectivity that cloud our evolution and journey through life.
Each episode in this series focuses upon a particular element of their teachings and aims to bring simple understanding to what was frequently hidden in plain sight within the various subject areas of the Fourth Way.
In our last talk, we introduced the ratio of the three forces and the ensuing structure they created.
In this discussion we will expose three hidden clues. Ones that will make it possible for us to define the structure of the Holy Sun Absolute and of the Universe..
Again, as told by the fellow in Texas… who just happens to be Mr. Smith.
So, let’s begin.
Mr. Smith found the first clue on page 323 in P.D. Ouspensky book In Search of the Miraculous.
It was hidden in what Gurdjieff called The Diagram of Everything Living, which is also called the Step Diagram.
The Step Diagram is a diagram of eleven squares in a step like pattern.
The first nine squares each contain three circles and each circle contains a number. The numbers refer to what it eats, what it is, and what it feeds… much like Bennett’s diagram of Pentads.
But that is not where the first clue is hidden. The first clue is hidden in the top two squares.
The lower nine, have pretty much the same pattern… and are very easy to understand, but when it reached the top two squares the pattern suddenly changed, and their description was somewhat unclear.
Then, after reading it over and over again, Mr. Smith noticed something which he thought was rather odd.
Here is basically what it said.
First, Gurdjieff drew a square and labeled it the Absolute.
In opposite corners, he put the numbers 1 and 6.
Next, within the square, he drew a large circle.
And, within it, he put an equilateral triangle, the points of which touched the circle.
Then, within the equilateral triangle, he put another circle, the circumference of which touched the triangle.
Finally, he put a single point at its center.
Mr. Smith followed the description of the first symbol just fine. But, in the description of the second symbol, here is what he thought was rather odd.
Gurdjieff then drew another square directly below the first square.
And, in it (and this is a quote), “He put figures 3 and 12 and two circles, each with a point at their centers, and called it the ‘Eternal Unchanging.’”
Mr. Smith thought, “Why was it necessary for Gurdjieff to say that each circle had a point at its center?” Why say that they both have a point… that’s odd.
After all, he doesn’t say the symbol of the Absolute has two points… and it has two circles.
So, Mr. Smith decided to investigate this oddity, in hopes of uncovering a reason.
He began with the symbol of the Absolute.
It had an inner circle with a point, and an outer circle with a triangle. A symbology which made sense to him. With it, he could easily recognize the changing of the Law of Three.
That is, the inner circle was the singularity, as indicated by the single point, where all the forces were at the same place. And, the area between the inner circle and the outer circle was where the forces were separated, as indicated by the triangle.
Mr. Smith knew that the symbol of the Absolute was followed by the symbol of the Eternal Unchanging, and that they both had two circles. Thus, he thought, perhaps, the two symbols are connected. That is, the outer circle in the symbol of the Absolute was the inner circle in the symbol of the Eternal Unchanging. After all, there is a certain connectedness to creation. Like sons becoming fathers, etcetera. So, he redrew the symbol… but labeled it differently.
To the left of the symbol, he put the word Absolute, and drew a line to the area which contained the single point.
He also knew that the Absolute and the Holy Sun Absolute were intrinsically connected. So, below the Absolute, he put the words Holy Sun Absolute and drew a line to the area which contained the triangle.
The labels and lines made it very clear that the entire area within the inner circle was the Absolute, and the entire area between the inner circle and the outer circle was the Holy Sun Absolute.
Additionally, it showed that the Holy Sun Absolute, the outer circle in the symbol of the Absolute, was the inner circle in the symbol of the Eternal Unchanging, which, when we uncover the second and third clues, fits perfectly.
OK. Back to examining the symbol.
In the area labeled the Absolute, the entire circle is empty… except for the single point, because everything is at that point.
In the area labeled the Holy Sun Absolute the forces are separated. Thus, the triangle.
However, if someone were to ask us, “Where, exactly, in the area of the Holy Sun Absolute are they?” We would not say, “They are here and there.” We would probably say, “They are everywhere.”
In the Absolute they are at a specific place, at a single point. But, in the Holy Sun Absolute, they are not at a specific place. Instead, they are everywhere separated. Which means, the entire area represents the separation of the forces. That is, there is not just one triangle there… but an infinite number of them.
Thus, we need to draw an infinite number of triangles, not just one. And, if we did that, the entire area would darken-in with lines. Kind of like spinning the triangle real fast, which would make the triangle disappear, and all we would see was a darkened blur.
So, to illustrate this, Mr. Smith shaded-in the area between the two circles.
I produced something similar to that when I was a kid. I would draw an almost perfect circle with only straight lines.
Here is how I did it. I would draw a four-inch square. Then, I would measure and mark the perimeter of the square in sixteenths of an inch.
Next, I would draw a straight line from the center-mark on the top side of the square, to the first mark down on the left side, and a second straight line, also, from the center-mark, to the first mark down on the right side.
I would then repeat the process, but this time I would start at the mark to the left of the center-mark, and go to the second mark down on the left side, and, likewise, from the mark that was to the right of the center-mark, and go to the second mark down on the right side. I kept repeating that process, one mark at a time.
After that was complete, there were straight lines from every mark on the top side, to half of the marks on the left and right sides. So, to finish the model, I turned the paper 180 degrees, and made the bottom side the top side, and, then, I repeated the process.
When I was finally done, I had a pretty good circle inscribed in the center of the square.
Did you ever do that… make a near perfect circle by drawing straight lines?
For me, it was pretty amazing… that I could make a circle without a compass.
And, if I made the grid tighter, say 1/32 of an inch, the circle became even more perfect.
That’s when I first noticed that every time I tightened the grid, the area outside the circle became more and more darkened-in with lines. And, I realized, that if I kept tightening the grid, I would, eventually, end up with a perfect circle surrounded by an area that was totally filled with black lines.
Do you see that?
So, shading-in the area between the two circles was a great way to show this.
We do not know why Gurdjieff put the numbers 1 and 6 in the Absolute, and the numbers 3 and 12 in the Eternal Unchanging, but we shall discover that shortly.
For now, let’s turn our attention to the second clue.
The Second Clue can be found in a quote, from Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson.
“And so, my dear boy, our COMMON FATHER CREATOR ALMIGHTY, having then in the beginning changed the functioning of both these primordial sacred laws, directed the action of their forces from within the Most Holy Sun Absolute into the space of the Universe, whereupon there was obtained the what is called ‘Emanation-of-the-Sun-Absolute’ and now called, ‘Theomertmalogos’ or ‘Word-God.’”
This quote implies that we should draw another circle, around the Holy Sun Absolute, to represent the space of the Universe.
If we did that, we would have a symbol consisting of three circles and a point.
OK, how should we label the new symbol?
That’s easy, just add the new area, the Universe, to our existing symbol.
Let’s see… the area, which contains the point, is the Absolute. The area, which contains the triangle, is the Holy Sun Absolute. And, the new area, which contains nothing at all, is the Universe.
So, Mr. Smith put the word Universe below the labels Absolute and Holy Sun Absolute, and drew a line from it to the new area. The area, which contained nothing at all.
OK. We now have a very good symbol for the three stages of creation.
Next, we will examine the forces which arise within them.
In episode 4, we learned that Law of Seven was changed in order to bring the separated forces into alignment. When that happened, the structure became diatonic… and everything became octaves.
Following this concept, Mr. Smith calculated each of the areas as an octave.
He started at the point and configured the first area, from the point to the inner circle, as the octave of 1296 (2592 to 1296). The second area, from the inner circle to the middle circle, as the octave of 648 (1296 to 648). And the third area, from the middle circle to the outer circle, as the octave of 324 (648 to 324).
He chose those numbers, because he wanted most of the octaves, we will be exploring, to be at whole numbers. If he wanted to get them all to be at whole numbers, he would have had to make the first octave the octave of 559,872, which was too big for his brain, and, probably, too big for yours.
So, he calculated each area as an octave, using the numbers given.
However, the first octave was not a diatonic octave. We know this, because the triangle was not placed in the area labeled the Absolute; it was placed in the area labeled the Holy Sun Absolute. Afterwhich, the Law of Seven was changed.
That’s when the structure became diatonic. Thus, whatever came before that… was not diatonic.
We also learned, in our study of the Enneagram, that before the structure became diatonic it was even-sevenths. Therefore, the octave of the Absolute must be at even-sevenths.
So the octave of the Absolute, from 2592 to 1296, was calculated at even-sevenths.
After that, even-sevenths became diatonic.
Thus, the octave of Holy Sun Absolute, from 1296 to 648, is calculated diatonically.
So the Holy Sun Absolute began with three separated forces.
One of them started at 1296, another at 1080, and the third at 864.
The first force, which started at 1296, defines the boundaries of the Holy Sun Absolute. It is the octave of 648, and exists between 1296 and 648.
The second force is the octave of 540. It started within the Holy Sun Absolute at 1080, but crossed the lower boundary of the Holy Sun Absolute and completed itself at 540, which is in the Universe.
The third force is the octave of 432. It also started within the Holy Sun Absolute at 864, but also left the Holy Sun Absolute and completed itself at 432, which, again, is in the Universe.
We can see the “Theomertmalogos, or the Word God,” emanating out of the Holy Sun Absolute and entering the space of the Universe (as described in the second clue).
So, creation began with three separated forces… but, it did not stop there… as the third clue indicates.
Mr. Smith found the third clue hiding in the following quote. It also comes from Beezlebub’s tales to His Grandson.
I will let you know when I reach it, so it will be easier to spot:
“And so, my dear boy, our COMMON FATHER CREATOR ALMIGHTY, having then in the beginning changed the functioning of both these primordial sacred laws, directed the action of their forces from within the Most Holy Sun Absolute into the space of the Universe, whereupon there was obtained the what is called ‘Ema-nation-of-the-Sun-Absolute’ and now called, ‘Theomertmalogos’ or ‘Word-God.’
“For the clarity of certain of my future explanations it must here be remarked that, in the process of the creation of the now existing World, the Divine ‘Will Power’ of our ENDLESSNESS participated only at the beginning.
“The subsequent creation went on automatically, of its own accord, entirely without the participation of His Own Divine Will Power, thanks only to these two changed fundamental primordial cosmic laws.
“And the process itself of creation proceeded then in the following successiveness:
“Thanks to the new particularity of the fifth Stopinder of the sacred Heptapara-parshinokh, these emanations issuing from the Sun Absolute began to act at certain definite points of the space of the Universe upon the prime-source cosmic substance Etherokrilno from which, owing to the totality of the former and the new particularities of the sacred primordial laws, certain definite concentrations began to be concentrated.
“Further, thanks to these factors (here’s the third clue) and also to their own laws of Heptaparaparshinokh and Triamazikamno which had already begun to arise in these definite concentrations with their action upon each other (end of clue), everything which had to be gradually began to be crystallized in these concentrations, and as a result of all this, those large concentrations were obtained which exist also until now and which we now call ‘Second-order-Suns.’
“When these newly arisen Suns had been completely actualized (more clue) and their own functionings of both the fundamental laws had been finally established in them (end of clue), then in them also, similarly to the Most Most Holy Sun Absolute, their own results began to be transformed and to be radiated, which, together with the emanations issuing from the Most Most Holy Sun Absolute into the space of the Universe, became the factors for the actualization of the common-cosmic fundamental process of the sacred law of Triamazikamno.”
Each new thing establishes for itself its own Law of Seven and its own Law of Three.
Thus, every force becomes an octave… and, every octave contains the other two forces of its own Trinity.
Where are they, you ask. At 5/6 and at 4/6… or, at the notes LA and FA, that’s where.
So, if the octave from 1296 to 648 contains the two forces of its Trinity, then, the octaves from 1080 to 540 and from 864 to 432 also contain the two forces of their Trinity.
And, since all forces become octaves, this means that more octaves will be created in the Holy Sun Absolute.
And, if we calculate those octaves… and then, create their forces, we will see that…
Force-2 at 1080 creates a new force at 900 (Force-4) … as well as a new force at 720 (Force-5).
And that Force-3 at 864 also creates Force-5 at 720. Hmm, interesting.
Finally, Force-4 at 900 creates a new force at 750 (Force-6).
There are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 forces, six octaves, created in the Holy Sun Absolute.
We had one octave in the Absolute. It started at 2592. And now, we have six octaves in the Holy Sun Absolute. They start at 1296, 1080, 900, 864, 750, and 720. The last of which… is created by 2 different octaves.
We now know why Gurdjieff put the numbers 1 and 6 in the symbol of the Absolute.
He did so, because the symbol of the Absolute represents both the Absolute and the Holy Sun Absolute; and, the numbers 1 and 6 represent the number of octaves created in each.
Thus, the structure of the Absolute and the Holy Sun Absolute is now known.
OK, let’s do the Universe.
Since every LA and FA is the DO of a new octave, it will be easy to discover the structure of the Universe.
We simply take every LA and FA that occurs in the Universe and make it the DO of a new octave… when we finish, we discover that there are thirteen octaves in the Universe.
I will not bore you with their math… but, if you would like to work it out, you may. If you do, you would find that the thirteen octaves are produced by forty-three forces, which creates a structure that Mr. Smith calls, “The Universal Cosmic Weave.”
You would also find that the thirteenth octave, the last octave, is the only one that does not have a note TI in the Universe. Which means it cannot see the oasis… and, therefore, is unable to ascend. Gurdjieff once said that things, which are unable to ascend, are like a Hydrogen without a Holy Ghost.”
I repeat, we have six octaves in the Holy Sun Absolute, the original three and the three we added, and thirteen octaves in the Universe; but, since the thirteenth octave is incapable of ascension, we can say that the Universe has only twelve.
The original three octaves created three additional octaves in the Holy Sun Absolute, afterwhich, twelve octaves were created in the Universe.
Now the numbers in Gurdjieff’s symbol of the Eternal Unchanging make sense.
In the Holy Sun Absolute we added three forces, and in the Universe we added twelve… and in the symbol of the Eternal Unchanging are numbers 3 and 12.
So, do you see it?
That’s how it works.
So, there are six octaves in the Holy Sun Absolute and twelve octaves in the Universe, for a grand total of 18 octaves.
Amazingly, 18 octaves explain everything.
But let’s add one more thing before we end this discussion.
There is a fourth clue. One that puts the final nail in the coffin. It can be found in Gurdjieff’s model of Worlds as described by P.D. Ouspensky in his book The Fourth Way – page 24 & 25.
“The Absolute is World 1, for the three forces in it make one. By his own will and consciousness the Absolute creates worlds. It is all intentional there and each force in it occupies each place. This is incomprehensible to us. In the next world, World 3, there are the same three forces, only they are already divided. These three forces again produce worlds of which we take one, but this World 6 is different from World 3 which is in contact with the Absolute, for it is already mechanical. World 6 has three forces from the preceding world and three of its own. The next world, World 12, has three forces from the world of the second order, six from the world of the third order and three of its own. The next world, World 24, has twenty-four forces, the one after forty-eight forces and the last ninety-six forces.”
Did you hear it?
It was said twice….
It concerned the forces….
It said… that each world creates THREE OF ITS OWN.
There are six worlds, World 3, World 6, World 12, World 24, World 48, and World 96, and if each world creates three forces of its own, that’s 6 times 3, which is 18… sound familiar?
That ends our discussion on the structure of the Absolute, the Holy Sun Absolute, and the Universe.
Hope you found it useful.
Thank you for listening, and, if you’d like to know more about the subjects and exercises we’ve been covering, including the book and guide that underpins it all, and, how we work with it; or, if you would like to obtain diagrams of the structure, as well as, learn the math that supports it, you can find us at The Dog Publishing, at the website The Dog Pub Dot Com. That’s T H E D O G P U B DOT COM
Goodbye until next time.