S2/EP14: How the “shocks” from assisting octaves make ascension possible

Podcast Series 2, Episode 14

How the “shocks” from assisting octaves make ascension possible

Discussion of how ascension in the universe is only made possible through the use of assisting octaves, and of how we may find our way back up from the way it all came down, with some revelations that may reverse your understanding of how octaves work in the universe. 

All diagrams referred to in this episode can be viewed here as you listen, together with the full transcript below.

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Associated Diagrams

Three Forces

Assisting or “Shock” Octaves

The Way Up is the Way Down


Click to view Podcast transcript

Welcome to a series of podcasts on how to achieve an awakened state through practising various intellectual, emotional and physical exercises, and through the gaining of understanding into the laws of world creation and world maintenance, specifically as described within the works of George Gurdjieff and the Fourth Way
Each episode in this series focuses upon a particular element of this teaching and aims to bring simple understanding to what was frequently hidden in plain sight within the various subject areas of the Fourth Way.

In the last podcast we learned how man fell asleep and how he can awaken.

In this podcast we will begin to define the fabric of the Universe. A fabric that unfolds beyond the conceptual ‘single octave’s inner structure’ we have been exploring… and, again, as told by the fellow in Texas.

Up until now, we have only been exploring one octave….like the octave of a tree. We learned about its inner octaves, its roots, its branches, and its leaves, etc. Now we must begin the study of outer octaves, because trees do not live in some sort of isolation… they do not live apart from soil, rainfall, weather, heat, cows, tractors, farmers, and people. That is, there are many other forces that influence the life of a tree.

Man, just like a tree, is also under many influences; and, we cannot study man without studying the other forces that influence him.

“No man is an island, entire of itself…” – John Donne.

In episodes 5 & 6, we saw how the Universe began with three forces, three octaves. In fact, we watched them separate. One force went to 6/6, one force went to 5/6, and the one force went to 4/6.

Three separated forces, three unique phenomena, three distinct octaves.

In episodes 9 & 10, we stretched the fabric of the Universe and caused the notes, LA and FA, to align with the forces at 5/6 and 4/6.

Next, in episode 11, we studied the structure of the Ray of Creation and its inner octaves.

But as just discussed, every octave has two forces within it, which create two additional octaves. So now, we must study those octaves as well.

When we do, we will discover the beginning of outer octaves, and understand what the fellow in Texas saw when he read the following Gurdjieff quote:

“It is necessary to notice that in the Great Universe all phenomena in general without exception wherever they arise and manifest, are simply successively law-conformable ‘Fractions’ of some whole phenomenon which has its prime arising on the ‘Most Holy Sun Absolute.’

“And in consequence, all cosmic phenomena, wherever they proceed, have a sense of ‘objectivity.’

“And these successively law-conformable ‘Fractions’ are actualized in every respect, and even in the sense of their involution and evolution, owing to the chief cosmic law, the sacred ‘Heptaparapar-shinokh.’”

He saw that “all phenomena in general” meant all phenomena in the Universe, not just some. “Without exception” meant that nobody was excluded. “Wherever they arise and manifest” meant everywhere and anywhere. And, “are simply successively law-conformable fractions” and “have a sense of ‘objectivity’” meant that everything was diatonic, with a math that can be traced back to our creator, and, thus, was created objectively.

He often says, “We may not be God, but we are a walking, law-conformable fraction of Him.

We are not just some random things that have nothing to do with God.

We are actual, law-conformable fractions of Him.

Wow! What a great idea!

If everything in the Universe is a law-conformable fraction, and is diatonic. Then all the forces in the Universe are law-conformable fractions, and are diatonic.

Thus, the three separated forces, DO 6/6, LA 5/6, and FA 4/6, give us a glimpse of these law-conformable fractions… Now, all we have to do is calculate each of them diatonically.

That makes perfect sense.

OK, the Universe began with three forces, not just one; but, so far, we have only calculated and studied one of them. Now, we must calculate and study the other two as well.

Let’s begin.

To keep all of our calculations at whole numbers, we will make the force at 6/6, the octave of 144. It will start at 288 vibrations and will descend to 144 vibrations; and, as it does, it will create a total of eight diatonic vibrations.

They are: DO 288, TI 270, LA 240, SO 216, FA 192, MI 180, RE 162 and DO 144.

The reconciling force, which exists at the LA of the affirming force’s octave, is the DO of its own octave. It, too, will create a total of eight diatonic vibrations as it descends from 240 vibrations to 120 vibrations.

They are: DO 240, TI 225, LA 200, SO 180, FA 160, MI 150, RE 135, and DO 120.

Finally, the denying force, which exists at the FA of the affirming force’s octave, is also the DO of its own octave, and likewise, will create its own set of eight diatonic vibrations as it descends from 192 vibrations to 96 vibrations.

They are: DO 192, TI 180, LA 160, SO 144, FA 128, MI 120, RE 108, and DO 96.

If you write these three octaves down next to each other, the first thing that you will notice is that they contain some of the same vibrations.

This sharing of diatonic vibrations, or mutual points of contact, allows the octaves to influence each other at these points; and, at the same time, binds the forces together.

We now have three diatonic structures.

One of them is the 12 (the Father). It represents the whole. It is the octave of 144. It starts at 288 vibrations and descends to 144 vibrations.

One of them is the 10 (the Mother). It represents two-thirds of the whole. It is the octave of 120. It starts at 240 vibrations, at LA of the 12 octave, and descends to 120 vibrations.

And, one of them is the 8 (the Son). It represents one-third of the whole. It is the octave of 96. It starts at 192 vibrations, at FA of the 12 octave, and descends to 96 vibrations.

The fellow in Texas calls them the Affirming Octave, the Reconciling Octave, and the Denying Octave… because of how they interact.

So now we have three octaves… each with its own set of diatonic vibrations.

Notice how these octaves interact with each other, enforce each other, and therefore, influence each other.

There is something else that you need to remember about these octaves, which is, they are not happening like you may have drawn them. That is, one over on the left, one in the middle, and the other over on the right.

In truth, they are all happening on the same line… at the same time!

However, if you put them on the same line, it will be very hard for you to see what is actually happening; so, it is easier to visualize them, if you separate them. But, in truth, they are all moving together, along on the same line.

You can see this on a piano. There is a repeating pattern of twelve keys on a piano. If you play some of those keys, you can play one octave. If you play other keys, you can play a different octave. The diatonic vibrations of twelve different octaves can be found in those 12 keys.

So, we now have three forces that are all moving together down the Universe. One diatonic force is at DO 288, 6/6; a second diatonic force is at LA 240, 5/6; and a third diatonic force is at FA 192, 4/6.

Three forces in motion – manifesting diatonically.

Now the question is, “If this is how the three forces propagate down the Universe, then… how do things go back up?”


It is kind of like finding yourself at the bottom of some big pit and asking one of the guys who is in the pit with you, “How do I get out of here?” He might say, “Go back up the way you came down.”

Hey, that was easy.

The way up was the way down. That is… to go back up, just retrace the steps you took coming down.

That’s simple.

So, take the structure that was just labeled the Affirming Octave, the Reconciling Octave, and the Denying Octave, from the highest-to-lowest respectively, (which was created on the way down) and relabel it from the lowest-to-highest as the Affirming Octave, the First Shock Octave, and Second Shock Octave.

When you do, you will see the structure that allows things to go back up.

That is, if you look at the structure from the lowest octave’s point of view, you will be able to see how things ascend.

The octave from 96 to 192 is now the Affirming Octave. The octave from 120 to 240 is now the First Shock Octave. And, the octave from 144 to 288 is now the Second Shock Octave.

Before we go further, we should talk a little bit more about the Denying Forces.

In Episode 5, we explained that there were no Denying Forces. That is, all forces were Affirming Forces. However, when two Affirming Forces move in opposite directions we call one of them a Denying Force.

Just such a Force enters at FA and opposes the Force that ascends from DO.

That is why, in order to ascend, you need Shock Octaves.

OK, let’s apply this idea to our new Affirming Octave.

If the Force at DO 96 tries to ascend, it will get stopped by the Force that enters at FA 128.

Fortunately, the force at FA can be overcome, if you get help from the First Shock octave.

The first shock octave can enter at MI and say, “Hey, if I join you, I will add my force to yours.”

If it does, then the force at DO, and the force at MI, will ascend together.

And, when the Force at FA, the one that is moving in the opposite direction, enters… the two Forces that are ascending together will overcome it.

This also happens at the note LA, which is the FA of the First Shock Octave… where an opposing Force enters at LA and, again, stops ascension.

However, this time, you can get help at the note SO, from the Second Shock Octave.

That is, if the Second Shock Octave enters and joins the other two ascending octaves. Then, all three will be moving together and will be able to overcome the opposing Force that enters at LA.

Whew, we made it!

Not so fast… just when you think you are safe, you realize that ascension gets stopped one final time. It gets stopped by the top DO, which just happens to be the FA of the Second Shock Octave… where a third opposing Force enters.


How do I get past that Opposing Force? Well, there are actually two ways. The first way of overcoming this opposing force… is to realize that the TI of your octave is both the MI of the Second Shock Octave and the SO of the First Shock Octave, which is where their shock octaves enter. And, if their shock octaves enter and help them, they might be able to help you, too…. Remember, as we discussed in episode 10, if you were in the desert and fell down to die, that you might be saved if you spied an oasis? Well, you can also be saved if it happens to start raining.

OK. The second way of overcoming that opposing force… is to remember that the TI-DO interval is called the intentionally-actualized-Mdnel-In, which was also discussed in Episode 10. There, we learned that when you fell down in the desert to die you spied the top of some palm trees, and jumped up, and ran to the oasis. That is, you felt the Completing Principle reaching back to you from the DO, which pulled you to completion.

Got it? I’m sure you do.

I repeat, there are two ways to get past the Opposing Force that enters at the top DO: you can either get help from outside, by accident… it can rain; or, you can spy the oasis and be pulled to completion.

If the latter happens… then, you will not need the help of the accidental, mechano-coinciding force of rain.

OK, back to the topic.

The way down shows the way up.

In order to go back up, you simply need to create the octaves that were initially created on the way down. If you do, then you can use them as “Shock Octaves” and overcome the forces that stop you.

Oh my God, I can hear the fellow in Texas yelling now…no, no, no! Why is he yelling no, no, no? Well, because he hates the term shock octaves, that’s why.

I repeat, he hates the term ‘shock octaves.’

He often says that he wishes he could slap the guy who first came up with that term.
He says, “Maybe it’s just me, but the idea of shocks, sounds like, Zap!!! There you go, there’s your shock… that’s all you need.”

Which is like saying, “Take a seed and put it in some soil, then, take a squirt gun and go Zap! Take that! There you go. You have the shock of water. You will now become a tree. And, someday, I will put a swing in you.”

However, that is not how it works…. Once you give a seed water, you must keep giving it water… for the entirety of its life…. It is not a Whack, Bam, Zap, or a Slap-across-the-face kind of thing.

The same with sunlight. You cannot give a seed water, and then, pull out your flashlight and blast it once, and say, “There you go – you have your shock!”

You cannot do that. You must constantly, continuously, give the seed water and sunlight.

If you do not want to do that… that is, if you want to keep your seed, then, do not give it water.

You can keep it as a seed for a thousand years, but the moment that you give it water… you cannot. Once you give it water, you must keep giving it water, and keep giving it water, and keep giving it water. So, it is not a shock!

There is a fun story, which the fellow in Texas likes to tell, about sea monkeys.

When he was a kid he would order them out of comic books. And, they would send him these little things that looked like tiny crystallized casings.

He would then dump them in a glass of water and leave them overnight, and the next day, guess what he found? Shrimps! Oh my God, how is that possible?

Now the story of these brine shrimp is amazing.

Sometimes they find their way into water wells. If they do, and if there are adverse conditions, because, apparently, in adverse conditions, the female shrimp create cysts, which are dormant, instead of eggs.

Some of the cysts get lodged on the side of the well; and, if the water goes down, the cysts find themselves out of the water, and will not hatch.

Some of them stay dormant for 25 years. 25 years! Alive.

Not a seed like a poppy seed, or a wheat seed, but a living animal, stuck to the side of a well for 25 years.

And then, one day, somebody throws a bucket down and starts pulling up water… and if the bucket scrapes against the side of the well, some of the cysts may end up in the bucket and are once again introduced to water. Then the people take the water, put it into a pan, boil it, and leave the unused portion, in the pan, overnight.

And, when they wake up the next morning, there are fricking sea-monkeys in there!
They were even boiled, and that didn’t destroy them.

Imagine, being stuck on the side of a well for 25 years and still being a viable shrimp. Just waiting for the shock of water to help you become a living creature.

But, once you hatch, you must stay in water… always. No more 25 years, safe on the side of the well.

Just amazing!

Then you think, “Wow, what a great defensive mechanism. The shrimp can hide on the side of a well for 25 years and escape their enemies.”

Unfortunately no, sorry, because when the people looked in the pan the next day and saw the sea-monkeys, they also saw other creatures in there, creatures that eat sea-monkeys. Creatures that also had been hiding on the side of the well, just waiting for the water to rise, so they, too, could hatch… and eat those tiny little brine shrimp.

Oh my! What a model… that things can be safe and secure if you leave it alone. But, once you start to assist them, you have to keep assisting them.

So, the fellow in Texas says that we should have called them “Assisting Octaves” not Shock Octaves, because, once they were given, they must constantly be given.

OK. By creating Assisting Octaves at MI and SO, we can overcome the Opposing Forces at FA and LA, and, thus, with just a little bit of help, it is possible to ascend.

Got the picture?

Really simple stuff.

The way up was the way down.

I repeat, if you reproduce the same structure that was created on the way down, you can use that structure to help you go back up.

Naturally, innately, everything goes down. That is, all octaves go down. Why? Because the forces that cause the octaves to go down are always there.

For example: If I asked you, “Have you ever bought any hamburger meat?” You would probably say, “Yes.”

“Have you ever put it in your refrigerator?” Again, “Yes.” “How long did you leave it there?” “Perhaps, a week?” “Why only a week?” “Well, because, after a week, it starts to go bad.”

Wow, that means that there comes a moment when the denying force exposes itself. And, when it does, you say, “It is too late! It is too late to bring in a shock and help the hamburger meat stay viable. The hamburger meat has reached FA and has become spoiled. It must be thrown away.

“I should have cooked it before it got that way! I should have brought in another force.
“If I had just cooked it, I could have put it back in the refrigerator and left it there even longer.

“It would have been OK. And, I would have overcome the first denying force.”

Indeed, if you did that, the hamburger meat would have lasted longer… but it still reaches a moment where it goes bad.

So, before it reaches that moment, you will need to either freeze it, or stick it into a higher oven… the oven of someone’s stomach.

Thus, if you get help, you can overcome Opposing Forces.

That is, you can cook the hamburger meat before it goes bad. Or, eat it before it spoils.
It is too late when it turns green.

So, you must be vigilant and anticipate what is going to happen; and then, act appropriately.

Otherwise, your hamburger meat will stink.

Now, I will caution you.

Did you ever go to a restaurant?

Did you ever see a sign that said, “Special of the Day?”

Do you know what the special of the day is?

The food that is about to go bad!

The master chef says, “Oh my God, if we do not put this food on the Special of the Day, today, it is going to be rotten tomorrow…. Let’s not lose all our money on it. Let’s sell it for half price.”

So, just be wary, when you eat the Special of the Day, you are, most likely, eating food that is on the tipping point of spoiling… just saying.


The way up was the way down.

Got it?

The forces that enter at the notes DO, LA, and FA will stop things from going back up. So, in order to go up, you must intentionally create assisting octaves… at MI, at SO, and at TI; or at TI, you could spy the oasis.

Now here is something else that is very important to remember:

The way down is automatic!

I repeat… the way down is automatic!

I do not say this to a lot of people, I only say it to the sharp ones… And, I hope you are one of the sharp ones.


In truth, there is no such thing as a descending octave.


“I thought you said, ‘The way down was automatic!’ Isn’t that descending?

“I mean… what do you mean, that ‘there is no such thing as a descending octave?’ They have been telling us for years about ascending and descending octaves.…

“How can it be, that there is no such thing as a descending octave?”

OK, don’t get too excited, I will explain.

Let me ask you for just a little bit of reason.

What tree do you know of that, after it has grown… starts to de-grow, and turns back into a small tree, a small sapling, a little twig coming out of the ground, then back to the seed from whence it came?

How many descending octaves do you know like that?

Or, how many human beings do you know of that, after becoming an adult… go back to becoming a teenager, a toddler, or a baby, then pop back into the womb from whence they came?

How many descending octaves do you know of like that?

Got the picture? Things do not descend.

They just stop ascending. And, when they do, everything that is still trying to ascend, eats them.

Life is all about ascending octaves. About forces that are all trying to ascend. Nobody is trying to descend. Nothing is trying to go down.

In an annual cycle, there may be something that looks like descending octaves: for example, a tree may get its leaves, and then lose its leaves, and then get its leaves, and then lose its leaves, etc.

So, there may be some ups and downs… but, there are no descending octaves.
There are just ascending octaves.

Things ascend; and, if they stop ascending, they get eaten.

If they get help, they may be able to keep ascending; if they do not get help, then they will stop ascending.

Most acorns hit the ground and rot! Millions of them… because nature cannot create the Assisting Octaves that are necessary for them to overcome the Opposing Forces that cause them to rot. Nature can only overcome those Opposing Forces by accident; or, by large numbers, “Let’s make a ton of acorns… one might get lucky!”

That is, a falling acorn may hit a rock, bounce out from under the tree into the sunlight. And, if it bounces just right, it may land in a crack. Then, if it rains, and the soil swells, the acorn will get planted away from the tree.

Then, if there are no farmers, no lawnmowers, or any animals that eat acorns… the acorn just might germinate and become the beginnings of an oak tree. Thereafter, if nobody interferes with it, and if it constantly receives water and sunlight… it just may grow and become part of the forest.

However, that oak tree will never go through a process of descension.

As we said, it may have oscillations. That is, during the ascending part of its annual cycle, it may produce acorns, after which, it goes dormant – but it will never become a smaller tree, a smaller sapling, and then an acorn.

I repeat, “There is no such thing as a descending octave.”

As far as we know, we have never found any gold in the coffers of Kentucky that has turned back into a lower element… descended back.

“Oh my God, quick, we better spend our gold now, because it is going to descend back into tungsten, palladium, and zinc!

At first, this knowledge shocks a lot of people. And then, after contemplating the structure and hearing all the evidence, they often say, “Wow, it makes so much sense when it is explained; and, even though, it is totally opposite of what we were taught, we now get it. We now see that things are indeed this way. Things do not descend; things do not go backwards.”


The structure produced by the first three initializing octaves of the Universe reveals that for an octave to ascend, Assisting Octaves must enter at the notes MI and SO.

That is, in an ascending octave, the notes DO, MI, and SO represent the trinity of forces necessary for its ascension.

In a musical octave, the notes DO, MI, and SO, when played together, form a chord: if the DO is a C, then the notes DO, MI, and SO form the chord C-Major; if the DO is a G, then the notes DO, MI, and SO form the chord G-Major, and so forth.

When we look at the octaves that are responsible for producing a chord, we are looking at the structure of the way down and of the way up.

On the way down, the ratio of the three forces is 6, 5, and 4.

On the way back up, the ratio is 4, 5, and 6.

Thus, both the way down and the way back up have the same ratio.

The forces living at DO, LA, and FA create a descending structure.

Whereas, the forces entering at DO, MI, and SO create an ascending structure.
The way up was the way down.

The forces necessary for ascension must be brought in, but the forces which cause things to descend are always there.

Things descend automatically. That is, the hamburger meat will automatically spoil.

Another example would be: If you put an apple on the window sill and left it there, I bet, at no time, while the apple is on the window sill, do you ever say, “We need to do something to shock the apple and keep it rotting, because it has stopped; it needs our help.”

But, you do have to say, “This plant is turning brown, we need to give it some water.” Or, “This plant is turning yellow, we need to put it in another window so it gets more light.”

That is, you must do things to help things go up, but you do not have to do anything at all, to help them go down. They go down all by themselves.

The way down is automatic.

The way back up is intentional.

The fellow in Texas says, “All octaves cosmically stand at the 6 ratio and go down.” All octaves go down. The little acorn, the apple, and the orange, etc., were all safe when they were on the tree and were at the 4 ratio. At the 4 position they were eating and growing.

But the moment they let go of the tree they took the 6 position, which means they are going down.

“All octaves cosmically stand at the 6 position and go down.”

You are going down! You let go of the tree! No one is going to take care of you now!
A human fetus is taken care of when it is in its mother’s womb. It is attached to its mother by a stem called the umbilical cord. But the moment it comes out of its mother’s womb, and the umbilical cord is cut, it is on a path to death.

It will not make it on its own – it is going down!

To make it, it must be fed, it must be kept warm, and it must be taken care of.
Somebody must do all these things, because, if they do not… it is going down!
I repeat, “All octaves cosmically stand at the 6 ratio and go down.”

Acorns become a six the moment they let go of the tree; and, unless they get lucky, that is, hit a rock… bounce out into the sun… fall into a crack… and get some rain, they are going to rot. That is the natural course of things – and without some luck… or some precise special effort, they all go down.

The oak tree says, “Oh well, it is a tough road, and most of my acorns are going to rot, but I can overcome that with large numbers… I will make a million acorns. One of them is liable to hit a rock and bounce out into the sunlight, one of them is liable to find a crack, and one of them is liable to do it when it rains.” Thus, it will find itself in the position of the 4.

And that one lucky little acorn, which finds itself in the position of the 4, may constantly receive the necessary assisting octaves… and grow. But, the other nine-hundred-ninety-nine-thousand-nine-hundred-ninety-nine are all going down!
The same thing happens to man.

How many sperms does he kill during his lifetime?

Oh my God! A man has to ejaculate a million sperms into a woman for one of them to find the egg. Which means the other nine-hundred-ninety-nine-thousand-nine-hundred-ninety-nine are all going to die.

That is life, “For many are called, but few are chosen!”

Despite the very bad odds, oak trees still make acorns, because there is a chance that one of them might find a way to take the 4 position and thereby have the possibility of ascension.

Life is that important!

So, the nature of the Universe is downhill.

Somebody may get lucky and go back uphill; or, there may be a way to make a precise special effort and avoid the downhill ride. For instance, a man can see that an oak tree has produced acorns and can harvest them. He can pick a million of them off the tree. He can plow a field, he can turn the soil, and he can stick the acorns 3 inches into the ground, six feet apart. Then, he can water them and make sure that any overgrowth is gone so that they receive ample sunlight. And, out of a million acorns, most of them will become oak trees.

Wow! Man can get almost all of them to grow. Whereas, Nature may only get just one.
That is, I have not seen an oak tree yet that reaches down and scratches the soil. Then, holds a branch over that area, drops an acorn, and plants it.

So, a man can help almost all of the acorns become an oak tree, but an oak tree cannot. It can only accomplish making an oak tree by large numbers.

Thus, man can do what an oak tree cannot, because man is double fortunate.

First, he is fortunate that the results of accidental ascension over billions of years gave him his existence.

Second, he is also fortunate that his existence allows for the possibility of consciousness, which enables him to personally produce the aforementioned precise special effort; thus… freeing himself from the dependency of accidental ascension.

This idea, of an inner transition, or in other words, the giving up of the higher ratio (6) in order to attain the lesser ratio (4) is repeatedly found in all religious and philosophical writings; in passages about Flesh and Spirit, servants making the best Masters, becoming like little children, losing in order to gain, and so forth.

In fact, anyone seeking personal evolution should learn first-hand what it means to subjugate the forces in themselves, and attain the inner world harmony that results from maintaining the ratios 4, 5, and 6; which, for each of us, is the resounding DO, MI, and SO of the major chord of our soul.

The way up was the way down!

I repeat, only man can intentionally take the 4 position, which gives him the possibility of ascension.

From one human-being to another who is also striving to become a 4, that’s the end of this podcast.

Thank you for listening, and, if you’d like to know more about the subjects and exercises we’ve been covering in these podcasts, including the book and guide that underpins all of this, and how we work with it; or, if you would like to obtain diagrams of the structure as well as learn all the math that supports it, you can find us at The Dog Publishing, at the website The Dog Pub Dot Com. That’s T H E D O G P U B DOT COM

Goodbye until next time.

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