May 1 & 2 2004

[Russell Smith]

America/Mexico

[thedog] Best Moments

[csmith] coming to a visceral, albeit elementary understandind that the enneagram is a bona-fide representation of real things

[csmith] also spending some “porch” time with Carol Jean this afternoon via telephone

[MigueAngel] It was very difficult today to enter the dogpub webpage through internet explorer on this PC, probably we have a virus that redirects the browsere somewhere else… like the formatory apparatus… jajaja

[MigueAngel] My best moment was on Wednesday, recovering through an insight the practice of Self-observation to attain doubling…

[MigueAngel] csmith> Thank You

[csmith] oh, yes, today and yesterday doubling in the face of news that an acquaintance of ours in Austin was murdered by a student

[MigueAngel] Another best moment was on the Chat with Russ and finding another way to practice the doubling…

[MigueAngel] You can find it at the forum..

[csmith] if you “roll the film” of the previous week (isn’t that an Orage exercise), there are lots and lots of best moments

[csmith] I saw it. A great conversation, and thanks for sharing it.

[MigueAngel] I agree… we are just bringing to this place…. the best of the best. huh?

[csmith] MigueAngel> agreed!

[azavala] HELLO!!!!

[MigueAngel] azavala> joaquin Hello… hola a los dos!!!

[thedog] BEST MOMENTS Then, Enneagram Questions or Examples of how you used it this week.

[azavala] thedog> MEJORES MOMENTOS.- DESPUES, PREGUNTAS DEL ENEAGRAMA O EJEMPLOS DE COMO LO USAMOS ESTA SEMANA.

[thedog] New Dog Tale: In value, what a man understands and can deliver of what he knows far exceeds the scope of his knowledge.

[azavala] GRACIAS HERMANO MIGUEL.- SI GUSTAS, YO TRADUZCO DEL INGLES AL ESPAÑOL.- !!

[MigueAngel] As a matter of fact, we are waiting for you to come to Vallarta and explain to us the truth and reality of the Enneagram to be able to use it.

[csmith] I allowed the enneagram “to use me” this week, giving information on where I was in each octave under immediate consideration.

[thedog] New Dog Tale: The finest tools in the world may do the job perfectly…but not by themselves.

[thedog] MigueAngel> I am looking forward to tha.

[MigueAngel] thedog> that would be the 99 and is great!!! Thank you sir.

[azavala] thedog> NUEVO DOG TALE (AFORISMO). DE HECHO, LO QUE UN HOMBRE COMPRENDE Y PUEDE DELIVERAR DE LO QUE EL CONOCE, ESCASAMENTE EXCEDE EL RANGO DE SU CONOCIMIENTO.

[[azavala] csmith> YO PERMITI QUE EL ENEAGRAMA ME USARA ESTA SEMANA, DANDO INFORMACION DE DONDE ESTABA EN CADA OCTAVA BAJO INMEDIATA CONSIDERACION.

[MigueAngel] thedog> Then we have now 101 aforisms and dogtales huh?

[azavala] thedog> NUEVO DOG TALE (AFORISMO).- LAS HERRAMIENTAS MAS PRECISAS EN EL MUNDO PUEDEN HACER SU TRABAJO PERFECTAMENTE…PERO NO POR SÍ MISMAS.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Something like that, I am not sure our tales at the upper end are registered. Send me what you have for 95-100. Thanks

[MigueAngel] thedog> I will do that.

[azavala] MigueAngel> GRACIAS MIGUEL.- ES MEJOR TRADUCCIÓN.

[azavala] thedog.- csmith.- NO HE VISTO TU ENVÍO TODAVÍA PERO LO HARE PRONTO, GRACIAS.

[MigueAngel] thedog> Thank you… and to deliver means… to teach?

[thedog] MigueAngel> That is, it is more valuable to understand one thing then it is to know about thousands

[thedog] Dictionary, Deliver: to produce the promised, desired, or expected results.

[MigueAngel] thedog> Both are really excellent… thank you for your continued efforts in teaching us more and more… and more… and more.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Thank you for finding value in learning

[MigueAngel] as a question… as there is nobody that doesn“t

[MigueAngel] speak English… should Alfonso continue the translation from English to Spanish?

[MigueAngel] Today we agreed that Spanish to English is my turn, but you see the situation.

[thedog] I think we can not translate unless someone is here who needs it. However it will be posted and not translated for those who check the Forum. But I Say, “If they are not here…then they don’t need the translation.

[MigueAngel] And upsss Alfonso is gone!

[thedog] OK ALL. Any other Questions or Enneagram experiences?

[MigueAngel] We have commented you are coming with at least 10 examples on how to use the Enneagram, and not just the trial and the cooking process.

[MigueAngel] We really have not studied it deeply and there are a lot of black spots that I haven’t been able to clarify for them.

[thedog] MigueAngel> You can pick any process you wish. The notes remain the same.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Re always tastes like Re. Mi, like Mi. Etc.

[joaquin] reciban un abrazo cariñoso todos

[MigueAngel] thedog> lets say the process of dieting.

[MigueAngel] joaquin> Hola Joaquìn tu mejor momento y preguntas acerca del eneagrama.

[MigueAngel] Joaquin says hello and a hug to all.

[csmith] Bennett’s book Enneagram studies has been helpful to me, although he did not comprehend the diatonic enneagram.

[MigueAngel] csmith> Thanks Charles, perhaps what I need is to sit and study it for real.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Yes. It will fit, too. It is cyclical; there is a function; there is something to be transformed; and there is a will behind the process.

[csmith] perhaps a “nicer” way to say it is, “the diatonic enneagram had not been revealed to him.”

[MigueAngel] Russell dice que podemos usar el eneagrama para cualquier proceso que deseemos.

[MigueAngel] thedog> Perhaps the problem is to find the correct function, the thing to be transformed and the will…

[thedog] MigueAngel> Bennett’s book is a great preparatory work and gives us the basic flow. Then add the other 8 enneagram lines and Zowie! It becomes dynamic and all encompassing.

[MigueAngel] Russ dice que en todo proceso con el eneagrama, hay un ciclo. hay una funciòn. algo por transformarse y una voluntad detras del proceso.

[joaquin] hoy en la mañana fui al aereopuerto a recoger a mauro un estudiante de la ciudad de mexico que viene a realizar su proceso al verlo salir y ver su sonrisa y la forma en que corrio hacia donde estaba fue un momento de centro magnetico

[thedog] MigueAngel> Yes. Remember the poem. Evaluate a denying force (I am 20 pounds over weight), create a function (exercise-reduced intake), etc.

[MigueAngel] Russ dice: el libro de Bennet sobre el eneagrama es una buena preparaciòn y nos da el flujo bàsico. despues se le añaden las otras 8 lìneas y waw… se vuelve dinàmico y todo abarcante.

[MigueAngel] Joaquin best moment: today went to the airport to pick up the next studen from mexico city and viewing him smiling and runing to me was a magnetic center moment.

[thedog] joaquin> You are a lucky Dog

[csmith] MigueAngel> joaquin: wonderful!

[MigueAngel] Russ dice: Si. Recuerda el poema. Evalua una fuerza de negaciòn (tengo 10 kilos de mas) crea una funciòn (ejercicio- comer menos) etc.

[MigueAngel] Russ a Joaquis: Eres un Dog afortunado.

[joaquin] y mas por tenerlos a ustedes

[MigueAngel] Joaquin says and more lucky for having all of you.

[csmith] we are fortunate to have all of you!

[MigueAngel] thedog> I was wondering if really for achieving something for real, with the help or not of the Enneagram, we need the final DO to be something like…to become the Master of myself or something the like.

[MigueAngel] Yo a Russ: Yo me preguntaba si realmente para lograr algo real, con la ayuda o no del Eneagrama, necesitamos que el DO final sea algo como… volverme el Amo de mi mismo o similares.

[thedog] MigueAngel> That would be a great ending DO, unless you were making dinner.

[MigueAngel] Russ a mi: Ese serìa un Gran DO final, a menos que estuvieras preparando una cena.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Aphorism # 33 contains such a DO. So you better make it to TI.

[MigueAngel] thedog> As a matter of fact, I would say that we as students need to have a higher DO related with the work in order to have consciouss or objective aims, aren’t we?

[MigueAngel] De mi para Russ: De hecho, yo dirìa que como estudiantes necesitamos tener un DO superior relacionadao con el trabajo, para tener una meta consciente y objetiva ¿No?

[Cristina] Hola a todos, solo para saludarlos, ya que se me hizo muy tarde, pero les mando muchos besos y abrazos

[MigueAngel] Russ a Mi: El aforismo 33 contiene ese DO. Asi que màs te vale hacerla hasta SI.

[thedog] MigueAngel> Yes. The higher the better. Throw your spear at the moon and you may strike an eagle; throw your spear at the eagle and you’ll probably strike a rock. Your reach should always exceed your grasp.

[Cristina] Hi every body, is is to late for me, just foy say hello, and I send you many kisses for all of you

[thedog] MigueAngel> Desire can become responsibility can become obligation. Obligation is a very big DO.

[MigueAngel] Russ a Mi: Si. Mientras màs alto mejor. Arroja tu lanza a la luna y tal vez le des aun àguila, arròjala a un àguila y probablemente le des a una roca. Tu alcance deberìa exceder tu tiro, siempre.

[thedog] Cristina> Love to you, too, Cristina

[MigueAngel] Russ a Mi: El deseo puede volverse responsabilidad y puede llegar a obligaciòn. La obligacòn es un DO grandìsimo.

[MigueAngel] Cristina said: Hi everyone. just to say hello, it es very late but anyhow, I send kisses and hugs to you.

[thedog] GONG GONG Time is up! Thank you for participating. Keep studying the Enneagran. Love, THE DOG

[csmith] friends and loved ones, I wish you all good things in your conscious being efforts. Until we meet again, I send Love from Charles in California.

[MigueAngel] DING DONG. dice Russ, el tiempo terminò. Gracias por participar. Mantènganse estudiando el Eneagrama. Los ama… THE DOG.

[joaquin] reciban un abrazo chao chao

[Cristina] joaquin> estoy lista Joaquis

[MigueAngel] Good Night Buenas noches. bye.

[thedog] DOG GONE

America/England

[jperrott] Good evening to each and all of you!

[thedog] Best Moments

[jperrott] Seeing that, “When you go on a spree, go the whole hog and don’t spare the postage” is real practical advice – because…

[thedog] Best moment: Finding Mr. Am

[jperrott] it’s easier than holding something back – that’s against you! 😉

[sarah] Hi there

[jperrott] Example: 75% for + 25% against = 50 net. That’s only a 50/50 chance of succeeding!

[jperrott] To have nothing against us, we need everything for us – then it’s easy!

[jperrott] Therefore, “When you go on a spree, go the whole hog and don’t spare the postage”

[scrivs] Hi Ho.

[csmith] finding in a visceral way that the enneagram is a real representation of real events. Hardly an expert yet, but enneagrams are everywhere.

[csmith] your reach should always exceed your grasp.

[jperrott] csmith> “Enneagrams are us”!

[sarah] BM-bearing witness to Saul’s realisation that he is not yet subtantial enough to retain his center of gravity in the presence of an attraction to ladies….

[sarah] …and therefore deciding (again) to entertain it no more i=until he has a permanent center of gravity

[jperrott] sarah> (sigh!) Yep, the Work is against Nature! 😉

[thedog] sarah> Having the ability to, “entertain it no more i=until he has a permanent center of gravity”, would be, in and of itself, a permanent center of gravity. My best wishes ti his aim.

[jperrott] sarah> Wow! That’s some aim! All stregnth to him!

[sarah] jperrott> Hello Mr definitely most wonderful!!! Yes-he said that too-that he realised that the mutual part was physical-and anything further was omly on his side. He explained his experience as coming from imagination and based on illusion.

[thedog] stevew> Best Moment

[thedog] scrivs> Best Moment

[stevew] BM: During teach-in with Tony (who was teaching me) when he took up the challenge of teaching from himself and not merely “Russ says …”

[jperrott] sarah> Why, thank you ma’am. I’, so glad he has a reasonable perspective on which to base the fulfilment of his aim.

[thedog] Did anyone in England call June to remind her of our chat?

[scrivs] BM: in changing an emotion an I came up that said ‘ You can’t do that! It’s not right. You are what you feel’. This was a new one . Glad I saw it.

[gary] thedog> june is with us now, about to study chapter 5 project.

[sarah] jperrott> Saul is in the last few pages of the 4th way and is looking forwards to studying CS and to joining the class-The day h realised his sleep-and made his choice-he simply said ‘right’-stood up, fouind his book-and began to read -and bar 1st obligolnian striving and very little …

[sarah] jperrott> …’leg stretching whims’ -he has simply continued to do so.

[scrivs] stevew> Thanx for the mail ( Shirl told me). Will read tonite.

[sarah] csmith> No I havent.I look forwadrs to hearing your perception of the film when you get to see it.Have you read the book?

[jperrott] sarah> Excellent! Good for him! The advice is that, when he’s finished, he should start again. The difference is that he should seek to recall in his own life as many examples as possible of everything he reads.

[csmith] sarah, I have not read the book. I noticed there was one whilst searching amazon.com for the movie.

[thedog] Hello June I hear wonderful things about you Share a best moment…

[jperrott] sarah> Cosmic Secrets won’t run away. He can do that later!

[thedog] symon> Best Moment, sir.

[jperrott] sarah> Please pass that on to him. Thanks in anticipation.

[sarah] jperrott> I have and he says that actually he had planned to do both……

[symon] BM jess and i have begun reading aloud AE

[jperrott] sarah> O.K. Given he is there, may I say that it will profit him more if he takes up the suggestion.

[thedog] After BEST MOMENTS, who has a question…observation…enneagram line example…

[symon] BM i was taking a test and the TA was being rude and distracting and i was able to tune him out and focus on the test

[scrivs] thedog> In the developing heirachy of creatures when does a ‘brain’ become a brain proper, as located on an octave?

[sarah] jperrott> Saul says-‘ok-I will do as you suggest’.

[symon] although i also got to watch FP wnat to say something to him

[thedog] symon> That is great, reading is allowed

[gary] thedog> Taking myself back to the state after April Fools at no. 10 and being able to stay there for quite a time even with a stressed situation around. This takes me to my best place and its wonderful !

[jperrott] sarah> Good for him – I’m proud of him!

[gary] The above message was from June not Gary !

[thedog] scrivs> When the brain beyond it begins.

[thedog] JUNE> that’s a 20!

[jperrott] thedog> Sssshe’s an ex-champion skater; she can only add up to 6!

[sarah] jperrott> Saul asks how this will be more proftable?He would like to say that he has been relating the book to himself and his own life.

[thedog] Me cleaver guy says, Gives a whole new meaning to 10 Magnolia way

[sarah] jperrott> Yes but whats two 6’s??

[jperrott] sarah> Some meals are best when they have been thoroughly and evenly cooked through. Then the whole meal is ready to be fully digested nutriciously!

[sarah] jperrott> ….a double toe ‘loop’

[scrivs] wooten> Ho! Big John.

[jperrott] scrivs> Whilst you’re waiting, I’d advise the use of “Sleep”.

[wooten] scrivs> Howdy all!

[thedog] Symon’s brother Seth, who had April Fools April 9th, Is ready for his Master Exercises (1,001 words of memory work).

[scrivs] jperrott> They have used the sleep tape that leaves one sleeping.Maybe that’s the one .

[thedog] wooten> Best Moment

[symon] seth is also printing out the board game as we chat

[symon] he said he superimposed the game over a picture of a black hole

[jperrott] scrivs> I don’t recognise that description. If you look through the tapes on the left-hand side of my desk, you will probably find a copy – simply called “Sleep”. But it doesn’t “leave one sleeping”. It unwinds Focus 10.

[thedog] symon> When will he do his 1,001 words?

[jperrott] It “unwinds” via Focus 10.

[stevew] russ> When we are looking at an object – say a cup – do we see a “completing process” in the making of the cup or only when the cup is used? Where, on the enneagram, is the completed cup?

[symon] thedog> monday or tuesday????

[scrivs] thedog> You might say ” One world–many inner and intersecting outer octaves. Apart of all simultaneously and one by focus”. That must be objective. But what might be the equivalent subjective formulation ?

[jperrott] stevew> The enneagrams of ‘Manufacturing a cup’ and ‘Taking a drink (from a cup) are different processes.

[sarah] BM-The realisation that by my own self I can do nothing-and that doing does through me.

[jperrott] sarah> The way to succeed in never doing anything is never to try! 😉

[stevew] jperrott> So the manufacturing process has a “completing principle” … is that when the cup is suitable to be used for drinking?

[jperrott] stevew> If I correctly understood your question, yes

[sarah] jperrott> …that I am a machine

[thedog] stevew> The completing process could be seen in both examples. One made the cup, the other allows the cups use as an inspiration to create a better cup. The completed cup is at LA…unless it’s a tea cup.

[jperrott] sarah> I understand. What we’re about is learning to use it so that we become “able to do”.

[scrivs] thedog> We have two Jokers in scale ‘?’ Might the Exra Joker satisfy the need for Absolute to have a denying force–and so He kicked his ‘son’ out ? ( Crudely put , but hope it makes sense).

[sarah] jperrott> We may become able to do-but we are still not the ones doing

[jperrott] sarah> …and repairing the machine for law-conformable use.

[sarah] jperrott> I didnt create the laws

[jperrott] sarah> Our objective is to becaome capable of doing.

[wooten] thedog> Thanks for askin.In class today. You began the dogtail with “In value..” Jon

[thedog] scrivs> The line of the flow of forces constantly deflecting according to law and uniting again at its ends

[jperrott] sarah> Nor did I – but I’ve become fairly familiar with them! 😉

[stevew] thedog> What, for the cup, occurs in the stopinder LA-TI?

[scrivs] thedog> ” The -line-of-the-flow-of-forces-constantly-deflecting-and-uniting-again-at-its-ends” ?

[stevew] thedog> (In the octave of its manufacture … for clarity.)

[scrivs] ” According-to- law”, that is !

[thedog] scrivs> XJ is the being. Joker is the knowing. Being seeks to know itself.

[wooten] scrivs> constantly deflecting according to law.need ti remember that bit.

[thedog] stevew> Still at LA. Really good cups with right advertising make it to TI but events end at LA. I have produced a cup.

[thedog] stevew> advertising

[gary] jperrott> I have now resolved one of my recent problems, by remembering my aim i.e. to study c/s and arboriculture. next obstacle – getting excepted to take a degree in arboriculture! feedback please??

[thedog] scrivs> The -line-of-the-flow-of-forces-constantly-deflecting-ACCORDING-TO-LAW-and-uniting-again-at-its-ends” ?

[gary] jperrott> lots of selfremembering !!!

[scrivs] thedog> Got it. For -got it .

[jperrott] gary> Er, I imagine you might mean “Accepted”? If so, On what topic do you require feed-back?

[sarah] jperrott> BM- realising that the addiction of smoking is tied up with not being in the present moment

[jperrott] gary> But congrats on achieving your first aim!

[thedog] gary> A CONCERT VIOLINIST WAS TO PERFORM IN CARNEIGE HALL. HE GOT OFF AT THE WRONG BUS STOP AND FRANTICALLY ASKED SOMEONE, “HOW DO I GET TO CARNEIGE HALL”, THE MAN RESPONDED, “PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE”.

[sarah] jperrott> …so I can hold off as long as I dont fall asleep and becaome caught uip in the future/past

[scrivs] When all is said and done, more is said than done .

[jperrott] sarah> Hold off what?

[csmith] thedog> also takes the financial clout to rent the hall and pay the hordes of staff that make the lights come on, etc.

[sarah] jperrott> …and that addictions are so attractive-because there is little that is relaible in life fpr the layman-therefore we create a need that CAN be fed.Only the need is an illusion in the forst place.

[sarah] jperrott> ..smoking

[jperrott] wooten> Jonny! Please offer Sarah your new Dogtale. Thanks.

[csmith] thedog> both practice and financial clout are payment in advance.

[thedog] csmith> You are seeing enneagrams everywhere.

[sarah] jperrott> (sorry about the errors-I must change my pen…)

[sarah] jperrott> ….and unfortunately then it works the other way-we didnt begin with a hole-it was created by the handed down illusion that we are not enough unless we have certain things-

[jperrott] sarah> Gotcha! sorry for my slowness! ;( The trick is to undertake with the whole of yourself – no reservations. Revisit my opening of this chat session regarding going on a spree.

[scrivs] jperrott> What will convince a man to pay the extra for a postage stamp ??

[stevew] scrivs> If he is convinced by an external event then he had no choice but to pay!

[jperrott] sarah> Any force that is not with you in your resolve is against you. Don’t give them room to exist. You only have to do this for, say, 10 minutes at a time.

[jperrott] scrivs> The realisation that, by so doing, he will get guaranteed delivery!

[csmith] scrivs>james day may have the answer to that question.

[thedog] scrivs> Quoting John Perrott, “Its easier”!

[thedog] DONG DONG Time is up. Thanks for your participation. See you next week. Love, Russ

[sarah] jperrott> I have noticed very much during this exercise the energy of my force-instead of the emphasis being on certain formalted goals-it is instead on making sure that my force doesnt wane-

[sarah] jperrott> and then building on it further when the moment it right

[jperrott] We may sometimes suppose that ‘G’s “demands” are beyond us mere mortals. The reality is that going the whole hog is easier than moving with no-hope reservations!

[sarah] wooten> ……THE FUTURE IS OURS TO SEE

[wooten] sarah> In value, what we understand an can deliver of what we know far exceeds the scope of our knowledge. how’s that?

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