March 20 & 21 2004

[Russell Smith]

America/Mexico

[thedog] Mejor Momentos

[csmith] chatting with sarah in the UK today about her progress in doubling and getting the Double or Nothing exercise, part 2

[thedog] cj> Hola Carol Jean Lewis-Zavala from Austin Texas

[Cristina] my best moment was today, in the morning in the carway from San Luis Potosi, seeing the sun my precense was very hard

[Cristina] mi mejor momento fue hoy en la mañana en la carretera de san Luis Potosi viendo el sol, la presencia estuvo muy fuerte

[thedog] cj> Cristina said she could translate, but having two of you is even better. Talk to the people in Spanish CJ. Ask for their best moments.

[Cristina] Russ pregunta por sus mejores momentos

[cj] mi mejor momento fue hoy tambien cuando la presencia me ayudo a cambiar unaa actitud mia de haber sido insultada !que dulce estar libre! my bestmoment happended today when the prescence helped me change my attitude towa

[claudia] En la semana Aura fue varias veces mi despertador al preguntarme “¿estás mucho feliz mami?

[cj] toward someone i perceived had insulted me — it was sweet to be free

[azavala] AT LAST!!!, HELLO!!

[Cristina] azavala> ayudanos a traducir amigo

[cj] my daughter found another ride and we have had flu at our house so i am not going to Sanger. hay enfermedad en mi casa y no puedo ir a Sanger como planeaba

[csmith] azavala> hello!

[Cristina] azavala>desde el emejor momento de cj

[azavala] OK, CRISTINA POR FAVOR TRADUCE DEL ESPAÑOL AL INGLES.- GRACIAS.

[Cristina] ok

[jorge] buenas tardes a todos.

[cj] Claudia says that her Aura has been her alarm clock as she asks her ” aare you very happy, mami?

[thedog] After sharing your BEST MOMENT Any Questions?

[azavala] thedog> DICE QUE DESPUES DE COMPARTIR SUS MEJORES MOMENTOS, ¿HAY PREGUNTAS?

[thedog] claudia> Great to have such a pleasant reminding factor. Great job!

[cj] computer question: does refresh keep the others frm showing up on my screen?

[azavala] thedog> claudia.- ES BUENO TENER TAN PLACENTERO FACTOR DE RECUERDO.- BUEN TRABAJO!!!

[cj] carlos smith me pregunta si vamos a estar juntos en la reunion de Sanger manana

[jorge] mi mejor momento fue el darme cuenta de que cuando me auxilio con mi despertador con un reloj de pulso y lo programo a que toque cada 15 minutos me ayuda a recordar recordarme a mi mismo.

[thedog]>[cj] No, it just waits that long before refreshing your page to match the web page where all the data is being placed.

[cj] jorge says that he can help himself wake up if he progams his wristwaatch to sound every 15 minutes and it helps him remember himself

[csmith] If you click on a name at the right side of the screen under The Study House, the question will be directed to that person, but visible to all.

[thedog] jorge> Fntastic, and often, reminding factor sir. Bravo

[jorge] el grupo the dog Mexico les envia saludos a todos los que estan en el chat.

[azavala] thedog> jorge.- FANTASTICO, Y FRECUENTE, FACTOR DE RECUERDO SR. BRAVO

[cj] jorge says the dog Mexico sends everyone on the chat greetings

[azavala] TIENEN MÁS PREGUNTAS PARA RUSS?

[thedog] jorge> Gracias, thank you

[jorge] Hola Russell te envio un fuerte abrazo desde Mexico y un agradecimiento por tus respuestas a mis comentarios.

[jorge] El capitulo si se refiere al centro mental superior

[Cristina] Tengo una pregunta, basada en el libro de El amor y otros ensayos de Orage, el comenta que debemos aspirar al amor conciente y creo que es una de las mas grandes tareas que tenemos en este camino, pero como comenzar a amar concientemente, que opinion tienes tu al respecto?

[claudia] He tenido momentos de melancolía y dolor al recordar a mi padre, lloro un rato abrazando su recuerdo y me siento mejor. Esto es fuga de energía?

[jorge] esa es una pregunta.

[azavala] cj> GRACIAS POR TRADUCIR DEL ESPAÑOL AL INGLÉS.-

[cj] jorge sends a hearty hug from Mexico and thanks for your responses to his comments

[azavala] Cristina> HOLA CRISTI, ¿PUEDES TRADUCIR TU PREGUNTA AL INGLÉS?.- GRACIAS.

[jorge] hola joaquin,saludos a claudia.

[cj] cristinas queston: based on the book of Love and other essays by orage. he says that we should aspire to conscious love and she believes that this is one of the greatest assignments that we have on this Way, but how to begin to love consciously– what is your opion

[jorge] Claudia te envia saludos tu cuata.

[azavala] thedog> DICE RUSS QUE CJ PUEDE TENER RETRASO EN SU COMPUTADORA Y PUEDE QUE NO SEA CAPAZ DE MANTENERSE EN LINEA.-

[cj] claudia asks:; i have had moments of melancholy and pain as i remember my father. i weep a while, embracing his memory and i feel better. I s this a leak of energy?

[Cristina] jorge> no tuvieron reunión hoy? no sabes donde anda Vero?

[thedog] Cristina> Liberation leads to liberation, these are the first words of truth. We must first love ourselves, then we can love others. The more you love yourself, the more you will be able to love others.

[azavala] thedog> Cristina.- LA LIBERACION CONDUCE A LA LIBERACION, ESTAS SON LAS PRIMERAS PALABRAS DE LA VERDAD. PRIMERO DEBEMOS AMARNOS A NOSOTROS MISMOS, ENTONCES PODREMOS AMAR A OTROS. CUANTO MAS TE AMES A TI MISMA, TANTO MAS SERAS CAPAZ DE AMAR A OTROS.

[thedog] claudia> No. It is memory. We can not remove the memory but we can not allow it to influence us. Instead we can choose to use it as a force to do better work. remembering my father makes me want to do even more on myself to honor his existence.

[jorge] jorge pregunto si el capitulo SI de secretos cosmicos se refiere al centro mental superior? o es el capitulo LA,

[thedog] claudia> What is important is that you can generate the power of emotion with thoughts of your father. Create them…and then use them.

[csmith] cj> for Christina As wise person says that there is no way we can know what the word means until we awaken. Conscious love, to me is a pilgrimage, growing in stature as we reach new states and stations. The best way there is to do the exercises, learn the material.

[jorge] Sii tuvimos reunion hoy cristina como estas de salud?. Parece que Vero se fue a su casa.

[azavala] thedog> claudia.- NO, ES LA MEMORIA. NO PODEMOS QUITAR LA MEMORIA, PERO PODEMOS NO PERMITIRLE QUE NOS INFLUYA. EN CAMBIO, PODEMOS ESCOGER USARLA COMO UNA FUERZA PARA TRABAJAR MEJOR, RECORDAR A MI PADRE ME HACE QUERER HACER MAS EN MI MISMO, PARA HONRAR SU EXISTENCIA.

[Verónica] Hola a todos, reciban un fuerte abrazo y un beso

[azavala] thedog> claudia.- LO QUE ES IMPORTANTE ES QUE PUEDAS GENERAR EL PODER DE LA EMOCION SIN PENSAMIENTOS DE TU PADRE. CREARLAS …Y USARLAS.

[cj] veronica says hi. she sends everyone a heartyhug and a kiss

[Cristina] Verónica> Hola Vero, ya estoy en casa, te llamo terminando el chat

[Cristina] jorge> Bien Jorge Gracias, ya estoy muy bien, aunque con la herida un poco abierta

[azavala] csmith> Cristina.- PARA CRISTINA, UNA PERSONA SABIA DICE QUE NO HAY MANERA DE QUE PODAMOS CONOCER QUE SIGNIFICA LA PALABRA HASTA QUE DESPERTAMOS. EL AMOR CONSCIENTE, PARA MI, ES UN PEREGRINO, CRECIENDO EN ESTATURA A MEDIDA QUE ALCANZAMOS NUEVOS ESTADOS Y ESTACIONES. EL MEJOR CAMINO ES HACER LOS ..

[azavala] csmith> Cristina.- EJERCICIOS , APRENDER EL MATERIAL.

[cj] is it in the chapter TI or in the chapter LA of consmic secrets that the higher mental center is referred to?

[Cristina] csmith> thank you very much for your coments I really apreciated it

[thedog] jorge> Chapter TI (7) talks more on the higher mental center, but it is introduced in Chapter 3, in the layout of the cards.

[azavala] cj> PREGUNTA QUE SI ES EN EL CAPITULO SI O EN EL CAPITULO LA DE SECRETOS COSMICOS DONDE SE REFIERE AL CENTRO MENTAL SUPERIOR?

[jorge] recuerdo de si es sinonimo de conciencia de si?

[azavala] thedog> jorge.- EL CAPITULO SI (7) HABLA MAS SOBRE EL CENTRO MENTAL SUPERIOR, PERO SE INICIA LA INTRODUCCIÓN EN EL CAPITULO 3, EN EL ESQUEMA DE LAS CARTAS.

[thedog] Verónica> BEST MOMENT

[azavala] thedog> Verónica.-¿TUS MEJORES MOMENTOS?

[cj] jorge asks whether remembering oneself is the same as self consciousness or of being conscious of oneself. I hope i got that right

[joaquin] Verónica> con la clave privada no es necesario ¡dime’

[Verónica] El día de hoy en la reunión de Fools, hicimos una lectura de Nicoll sobre las tres líneas de trabajo, en donde todos participaron con sus comentarios y lo mejor fue que nos dimos cuenta como grupo que necesitamos esforzarnos en trabajar con nosotros mismos

[Verónica] y para los integrantes mismos del grupo y por supuesto para nuestra amada Escuela

[Verónica] sin embargo también nos percatamos que hay tantas sutilezas que no nos permiten avanzar

[thedog] jorge> Self consciousness is a state of consciousness. Self remembering is an attempt to bring oneself to that state, but it, itself, is not self-consciousness…just a means to attaining glimpses of it

[jorge] cuando la enfermedad o el dolor es muy persistente como podemos ayudarnos independientemente de la medicina.

[Verónica] Hicimos también el ejercicio del April Fool, sabes fue tan hermoso el momento que sentí la Presencia en mi presencia tan hermosa y tan grande que confirmo cada vez mas que este es mi camino

[azavala] thedog> jorge.- LA CONCIENCIA DE SI ES UN ESTADO DE CONCIENCIA. RECORDARSE A SI MISMO ES UN INTENTO PARA ATRAER ESE ESTADO, PERO EN SÍ MISMO NO ES UN ESTADO DE CONCIENCIA DE SÍ…ES UN MEDIO PARA ALCANZAR CHISPAZOS DE CONCIENCIA DE SI.

[cj] veronicas best moment happened in the Fools’ class . They read Nicoll where he wrote about three lines of work. Everyone participated with comments and the best of it was that we all realized as a group that we need the make more force in the work w ith ourselves

[Verónica] Y agradezco infinitamente el tener a Russ como nuestro maestro, un maestro vivo, que nos dirige y nos crea las condiciones para trabajar. De la misma manera al hermoso grupo que es la Escuela The Dog

[thedog] Verónica> Bravo my Lady

[cj] Veronica continues: We also did the exercise of April Fools the moment was so beautiful when I felt the Presence in my presence it was lovely and so great that I reconfirm each tome that this is my path

[thedog] Verónica> Stop before you make me weep.

[cj] Veronica continues: I also am infinitely grateful for Russ as our Teacher– a teacher who is alive–who directsus and creates the conditions in whic h we can Work.. I also am grateful for the beautiful School, The Dog

[azavala] thedog> Verónica.- DETENTE ANTES DE QUE ME HAGAS LLORAR.

[thedog] 8 minutes left…any more Questions?

[azavala] thedog> DICE RUSS QUE QUEDAN OCHO MINUTOS…¿HAY MAS PREGUNTAS?

[jorge] cual seria otra forma de agotar al centro emocional en el ejercicio de april fools?

[cj] What is another means of exhausting the emotional center during April Fools?

[thedog] jorge> Hold the emotions of your objective prayer.

[azavala] thedog> jorge.- SOSTEN LAS EMOCIONES DE TU ORACION OBJETIVA.

[Verónica] Un estudiante me preguntaba ¿Cómo poder entender mejor la segunda línea de trabajo?

[joaquin] reciban todos un beso y unn abrazo con intencion y presencia

[cj] dos cabezas valen mas que una

[azavala] joaquin> GRACIAS JOAQUIN.!!!

[claudia] entonces es correcto que al llegar la emoción, cualquiera que esta sea, debo parar los pensamientos y transformarla al respirar conscientemente en ese momento?

[cj] veronica asks form another student:; How can we understand better the second line of Work?

[Cristina] joaquin> Gracias Joaquín, te mando muchos besos y abrazos a ti a Claudia y a los niños

[azavala] cj> I APRECIATTE IT.- THANKS!!!!

[jorge] igualmente Joaquinjoaquin

[Verónica] Un beso para todos, especialmente a Russ y Pamela uno muy grande

[thedog] Verónica> Working in a group has a completely different effect then personal work. That is why we form groups.

[thedog] DONG DONG … Time is up. Thank you to everyone for being here and to those who have helped us in translation. See you all next week. Love to all from THE DOG

[csmith] dear friends and loved ones, good night. Love to all. Charles

[cj] Caludia says:; then is is corrct that when any emtion arrives, I should stop thoughts and transform that emotion while breathing consciously in that moment?

[azavala] thedog> Verónica.- EL TRABAJO EN GRUPO TIENE UN EFECTO COMPLETAMENTE DIFERENTE QUE EL TRABAJO PERSONAL. ESA ES LA RAZON POR LA QUE FORMAMOS GRUPOS.

[Cristina] thedog> Thank you very much for every thing and for be our teacher I love you so much, say hello to Pamela

csmith exits from this room

[thedog] claudia> YES!!! Great observation.

[thedog] Cristina> Thank you Cristina, I will

[jorge] azavala te agradesco tu apoy, para traducir a R ussell.

[cj] good night and sorry for misspellings

[azavala] thedog> RUSS DICE.- DONG…DONG. SE TERMINO EL TIEMPO.- GRACIAS A TODOS POR ESTAR AQUÍ Y A AQUELLOS QUE AYUDARON EN LA TRADUCCION. LOS VERE LA PROXIMA SEMANA. LOS AMO A TODOS.

[jorge] buenas noches a todos .

[claudia] gracias, abrazos y besos para todos.

[thedog]>[cj] You were brilliant!!! Thanks

[Verónica] Gracias, Alfonso por tu apoyo y por tu presencia en el chat

[Cristina] Gracias a todos y saludos desde la ciudad de México

[azavala] thedog> claudia.- SI!!!, GRAN OBSERVACION.

[azavala] cj> THANK YOU, YOU DID IT VERY WELL!!!

[Verónica] El grupo de la Cd. de México les manda un abrazo y un beso con Amor y Presencia

[jorge] BAY THE DOG.

[thedog] azavala> Thanks Alfonso. Talk to you at 9:30

[azavala] GRACIAS A TODOS.- MUY BUENAS NOCHES!!!

[jorge] BAY RUSELL

[azavala] thedog> YES, SIR.!!!! IT WILL BE A PLEASURE!!!

America/England

[gary] hello all

[jperrott] Good evening all!

[thedog] Best moments

[gary] B/m during a 3 fold attention exercise I saw my aim – to occupy the middle

[thedog] gary> Great Mr. Beer

[stevew] Good evening.

[jperrott] Mine was to witness June’;s awakening and to hear of its effect on others.

[thedog] Best Moment is a toss up between Kenny’s realizations near the end of his journey here and June’s awakening at the beginning of hers.

[jperrott] thedog> Can you share any of those realizations?

[stevew] Best moment was seeing beginnings of Magnetic Centre in a mutual friend of John and myself.

[gary] jperrott> have been struggling to wear “poor me” down, and not vice versa

[thedog] jperrott> Kinda like putting your head over on one side to get out of the way of your highers coming thru You know, you gotta be nothing for something be.

[jperrott] gary> Don’t make it a struggle Gary, just choose to do it! :-))

[jperrott] thedog> Glad to hear it! 🙂

[thedog] jperrott> How is June managing back in the world? Splendid, I presume.

[thedog] stevew> What light went off in your friend over what moment?

[jperrott] thedog> She’s holding her title wonderfully – as far as I am aware! 😉

[gary] jperrott> the more force i put against it , the more substantial i feel, feels like rising above it !

[thedog] jperrott> Great. Can’t wait to give you a big cuddle

[jperrott] gary> That’s how the Work works – if you do it! 😉

[stevew] thedog> He read a tale about how Socrates responded to someone who offered him some “hot news”. Socrates asked three questions ….

[stevew] thedog> He asked whether the news was known to be true … and the bringer of it had to admit that he had only heard it from someone else.

[jperrott] gary> Some refer to it as “a return on investment”!

[stevew] thedog> He then asked whether it told something good … and the bringer had to admit that it was quite negative about the subject.

[gary] jperrott> got to pay in advance !

[stevew] thedog> Socrates then said that there was still one chance, if the news was useful … and the bringer had to admit that it was not.

[jperrott] gary> O good! You’ve learned the (not very well kept) secret! 😉

[stevew] thedog> Socrates then said that if the news was neither true, good or useful, why did the bringer want to impart it … and the bringer had to admit that he had no good reason to do so.

[thedog] stevew> Fantastic Is this mutual friend one of the blokes I have met?

[stevew] thedog> Our mutual friend saw the value in Socrates’ response.

[stevew] thedog> Yes, it is Mark Higgins. You met him in the pub with myself and Geoff Corker.

[thedog] stevew> Light haired young man, who recently had a boy?

[jperrott] thedog> Ginger-haired – two girls!

[stevew] thedog> Light haired yes … but a girl, not a boy. (And he now has two young girls.)

[jperrott] stevew> Apologies; my finger was on the trigger! 😉

[thedog] stevew> Gotcha, Thanks. I remember him.

[stevew] jperrott> No worries … after all, you know him too.

[jperrott] stevew> … and his family – not difficult! 🙂

[thedog] wooten> If you are going to be here, at least share your Best Moment …….

[jperrott] gary> Did you gain anything useful from your trip home with June?

[thedog] Second best moment was hearing from Miguel that he is in Guadalajara this weekend starting The Dog Guadalajara

[wooten] thedog> Yes Sir. One of mine was I AM in class this morning. jonny

[jperrott] thedog> I wish him much “hara” in the process! 😉

[gary] jperrott> I recognised her state, clear and thoughtful when speaking

[jperrott] What was special about it?

[wooten] jperrott> Yo Mr. P. see you soon.

[thedog] jperrott> Good hoke, sir.

[jperrott] wooten> Indeed! What was special about the “I Ams”?

[jperrott] thedog> What’s a “hoke”?

[thedog] jperrott> Like “hara”, except with a “j”.

[jperrott] gary> It takes one to know one!

[jperrott] thedog> That’s nice! :-)))

[jperrott] thedog> …I see I was lacking in the 3 of hearts!

[wooten] jperrott> Hearing once again that out of millions of possibilities , I am able to understand my purpose.

[stevew] thedog> Have you heard anything more from Agustin?

[thedog] Been working on the cosmic rumple – defining its actual shape. Kind of looks like a drop of water or a lilac leaf or a hot air balloon. Will get it scanned in and available to ya’ll.

[jperrott] thedog> From Ken’s description, I visualized it three-dimensionally as a thin flower vase – bulbous (onion-like) at the bottom with a rose therein!

[stevew] scrivs> Yo! Is Shirley with you there?

[thedog] stevew> Agustin is back in Puerto Vallarta. While he was in England, he actually took the train to Fleet and went to #8 Magnolia Way and the people there were not John Perrott and his wife and he was out of money and had to take the train back to London, hoping that they wouldn’t check his ticket.

[thedog] stevew> He made it and is now home and doing great!

[stevew] thedog> Lovely!

[scrivs] stevew> Shirl just got of the quilting pages. And went.

[thedog] stevew> He was very surprised when I told him that he was one door away from the right place and I did not know how he had the address as 8 Magnolia Way instead of 10 Magnolia way. We both had a good laugh.

[thedog] scrivs> Best Moment Sir.

[scrivs] Um…..

[thedog] scrivs> It’s ok to say nothing

[thedog] jperrott> You’ve seen it!

[scrivs] thedog> O.K. Nothing then .

[scrivs] thedog> Am looking 4ward to getting out bits of string tomorrow , and getting some curves for the Rumple .

[stevew] thedog> Is there something special that you hope to find in the shape of the rumple or is this just “exploration”?

[thedog] Having heard scores of times Gurdjieff’s explanations of the idiot toasts, I can only marvel at the insights into human nature that he was able to express in such simple terms. His talks about the tragic situation of the enlightened idiot whom ‘even God could not help’ invariably sent a shudder

[thedog] of horror down my spine. Nothing has done so much to convince me that we must totally shed any pretension to be ‘special people’ if we hope to attain true freedom.

[thedog] stevew> I won’t know till I find it. But I will bet the ranch that something remarkable will be revealed when I do.

[jperrott] thedog> Insh’allah!

[stevew] thedog> What are the parameters? The curve of the physical model is simply a “least energy” catenary, depending on the compression and the modulus of elasticity of the “strip” that is being compressed.

[scrivs] stevew> So do the equation then mon brave !!

[stevew] thedog> (Also on the density of the material.)

[thedog] stevew> Yes, except right now, my marteial is to dense to figure it out.

[stevew] scrivs> That’s why I am asking about the parameters. Because I could not see any connection between the physical model variables and anything in an abstract octave model, I have never followed it up.

[scrivs] stevew> You seem to assume that gravity might act ‘sideways’ to the main axis ??

[stevew] scrivs> In the physical model, gravity acts in one direction. There are three “least energy” curves – two “mirror image” rumples and a simple “bow” curve. Try flipping the physical model and you will see it jump between these states.

[thedog] stevew> Perhaps the rumple creates the gravity we know today, i.e., more stuff compressed into a smaller space.

[scrivs] stevew> I get a glimpse of your idea. Let’s do it on paper next time .

[thedog] stevew> I put a 9 inch paper in a 7 inch space and it initially made a bow, but as it sat there for a time…the bow turned into a rumple, i.e., gravity caused the bow to shift to one side and pulled the other side down and a perfect rumple appeared.

[stevew] thedog> Gravity seems a lot like “to him who has, more shall be added but from him who has not, even that will be taken away”

[stevew] thedog> And if you had done it with something more dense and more elastic then the rumple would have been much shorter.

[jperrott] thedog> Actually, I can reproduce it only if a hold down the Do with my finger and push against the Fa with my finger nail.

[stevew] thedog> I don’t want to detract from the idea of computing the curve — there may be something to see — but what would be the parameters corresponding to the physical attributes of the material being compressed?

[thedog] stevew> Yes, that is the point. Too flexible and it over rumples. Not flexible enough and it stays a bow. But the flexibility to rumple rightly should tell us something about the properties of space itself. At least that is what I am hoping for.

[stevew] thedog> Actually, the bow curve shortens, too, and becomes a “pimple” rather than a “rumple”.

[scrivs] Or the rumple becomes a dimple .stevew>

[thedog] stevew> Any way, I’ll get it scanned in to the puter and send you one to see if you can help me in defining the properties of space that would accommodate its shape.

[thedog] DONG DONG…Time is up. Thanks for participating. See you all next week and you Mr. P on Thursday.

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