I found this on my computer. It is the question and answer session following my presentation in England of the changing of the Law of seven at the first All and Everything conference, which was initiated to discuss the discoveries in Cosmic Secrets.

Session 4. Questions, Answers and Contributions.

Dimitri Peretzi:
I feel the need to congratulate you and state how much I admire what you have done over these years, which as you know, I knew because I have your book for a few months now. I must say that having worked many years on the same ideas, I appreciate what you have done, more than someone who has not worked on the mathematics. What you have done is marvelous because it reinforces, I think, this idea that Mr. Gurdjieff has been very precise in what he was saying. You use the expression, “This goes beyond being a symbol and it becomes reality.” This is reality I think; and this raises a question. Mr. Gurdjieff was also a master of innuendo. The word is not double talk, it is Oriental talk, and I want to ask you, how do you fare faced with this work opus? Much of which is incredibly precise, much more than people are willing to accept; and accurate, and part of which, at least, seems to be Oriental?

Russell Smith:
Yes sir; a good question. The question being: How do we reconcile the delimma between that which is precise in Gurdjieff’s writing and that which is left to…figure out; it seems to be a little bit mystified or cloudy, or I guess the word here is Oriental.
We are all different; and there can be no ritual to waking up. When I look at things that become ritualized, I see them as missing the first three letters: the S, the P, and the I; that are supposed to be before the ritual. Turning it into something spiritual and not just ritual. And I think Gurdjieff had to give it to us in disguised forms because he could not say, you must eat a banana every day, because maybe that is only subject to one man’s being, but it is not something that would be conducive to another man’s. And so he had to leave some of those ideas for you, as an individual, to search in yourself, and find out that what it was for you that got you snagged. Yesterday we talked about chief features in one of these conversations we had; and I see it like the formation of the planets, every planet out there is different because it got hit by different meteors. And those meteors created craters, impact spots. They filled up with water and life then began to evolve around those points of impact. And I see my inner world as no different, it has been impacted by meteors since I was a youth, that formed chief feature craters in me around which my inner world bent and then came into vivifyingness. I can only know me, I cannot know you. You can only know yourself. You have to ask that question, of what is the mystery and how does that mystery apply to me. And we all know this, don’t we, that the work is a personal work. It is…self initiation. There can be no wand’s waived or words that are spoken that can change your inner world unless you get in there and do something about it to change it, which means you have to investigate what your chief features are and what your false personalities are, and the ideas that set you in motion. I may call you a name and not effect you and the same name might set another man into a rage. Why is that? We are all different, we are all unique. So I suggest that Gurdjieff saw this and said, I can’t tell them everything that they can do or what to do because it will not apply but maybe only to one being out of all. But I can tell you in a round about way and a disguised fashion about the necessity to study yourself and try to bring your machine up to its best working so that we can wake up these higher centers that are in us. So we can find in this work not only something with a grain of objectivity but we can find that which seems to be clouded and mystical or mysterious; that we ourselves have to evaluate for ourselves, to see what we are and why we became what we are. We all have our different impacts that made us what we are. If you look at your life you will remember them. How much do you remember of 8 years old, 9 years old, 10 years old? Everyone of you probably has something, one moment, that got in when some meteor impacted on your inner world and formed some crater that you began to evolve around. Me, I’ve got to work at my craters. You, I suggest, should work on yours. But I also suggest that there is an objective structure that is the same for all of us, because we are all made in the image of God and the image of God is nothing other than law conformable fractions of something that arose on the Holy Sun Absolute, which defines everything in the Universe.

James Moore:
May I ask you a question? I ask it with all the confidence of a cretin, addressing Albert Einstein. I am staggered, I am awed by your command of the book which I have read. You seem to be moving in the direction of an integral concept, almost like the search for a unified field. You are drawing in more and more things of the peripheral and bringing them under this general conceptualization which was Gurdjieff’s. Do you find that the moment that you are attracting from what one would call orthodox science a kind of nascent interest, a kind of recognition, or is there a blunt challenge to your ideas? I mean, are you a trick or a genius, that is really what I want to know! I am either going to throw myself at your feet and become your pupil or I am going to say, that man Smith, you know, the blokes at the Universities, they will not entertain this at all.

Russell Smith:
Thank you for the question. It’s hard to explain, I’ve been very fortunate. Something has woke up in my inner being, and there are many things I understand; but it seemed to me that there would be only one way to make this material available to people, and that was if I went about it in a purely objective sense. They can’t argue with me that two and two are four, but if I say you have a complex about your height, now you can dissuade that all day long. So it seemed that if I was going to put these ideas out to humanity, to others who were seeking, that the only way that had a possibility of making any sense was to try and structuralize it objectively. So I took the third striving, the conscious striving to know ever more and more concerning the laws of world-creation and world-maintenance, and have written my book with that as the crux. Yes, there are many other things out there that we have to learn, and yes, I have drawn on every source I can in an objective scientific sense to represent that these laws are in fact out there. They are not just some symbology, you know, everything is three and everything is seven; but, there is a mathematical veracity that can be tasted and verified and sensed. And if one learns these things, one knows exactly where shocks have to be given, and one begins to taste in their inner world when they are at the point where the interval is about to be reached; where a shock must be made to carry their own octave on in a straight line. And my hopes were, that by bringing in all this plethora of scientific ideas and trying to show people that – Hey! there is this common structure to everything in the Universe, that you and I are built in, that if we all have that as a common aim, maybe then we will draw together and start asking other great questions: Well, what about this side of myself; What about the first striving; What about the fourth striving; What about the fifth striving? And maybe answers can be gained there as well. That’s up for you, your observations, your consciousness, your teachers, the people that you have found who can give you some answers.
This is what we do in Texas. They come in every week from someplace and we sit down for a week, me and them, one on one. I don’t do group training. I don’t believe in group training; I believe you have to sit down with an individual and take his mask off, because he is going to put his mask on for the first few days anyway and you are not going to see what he is on his own admission. He will show you what he wants you to see, but after those first two or three days you start finding out what motivates them. You start seeing the craters in their inner world that form their chief feature; and then maybe, if you can stand back objectively and impartially, you can give them something that they can do that will start to change this “most important side of ourselves”…the side of our being. This is just the side of the structure (pointing to the flip chart that was used in explaining the changing of the two fundamental laws). This by itself is nothing. This means nothing if we don’t have a change in our being, and a change in what we are as a totality of a man or a woman. That takes individual work and individual guidance, and it is like Gurdjieff said, it is like a repair shop for automobiles. Every automobile there needs work; but they all don’t need the same work, so there can’t be a manual that says everybody needs a lube job. It just won’t, won’t work that way. But we are all vehicles, so we all have a common structure.

Dr. Keith Buzzell:
I just want to thank you genuinely. I think this is just extraordinarily…not just interesting, but extraordinarily important. When I mentioned this morning, not knowing, and the one interesting part, I received a copy, from one of the people at the farm, of your book some six months ago now and, not easily, I have not cracked the book for a variety of reasons. One had to do with just being in pursuit from a particular perspective that I felt was really important that I carried through to its own relative end point. But this is what I was referring to in my little talk earlier about the objective scientific method that is detailed. And how this must, because it is the first and only whole representation in our world of the very best of what is true science with all that is there in spiritual traditions, and they are brought together, and this is just a brilliant fusion of those things, so thank you.

Bob Godon:
I would like to address a question I have heard brought up many times about your work, but I then would like to hear your response to it. One criticism or comment would be that Mr. Gurdjieff buried these ideas in the book. How dare you dig them up and show them to everybody else; and the people feel that this is a real danger and they have fear about it. I don’t share that fear, but I would like to hear your response.

Russell Smith:
I will say two things: For those of you who think that way…forget everything I said. For those of you who are seeking something objective…remember it all. I’ll put it this way, if Gurdjieff put it there, he put it there to be found.

Nicolas Tereshchenko:
Your presentation, especially without notes, is very impressive.

Russell Smith:
I have notes: DO, RE, MI, FA, SO, LA, TI, DO.

Nicolas Tereshchenko:
Yeah maybe, but they are in your head! But, from the high levels which we have reached now, I want to come right down to the bottom. (NT using chart for question) Can you show me here Mr. Gurdjieff’s words for stopinder and points of deflection of the seven stopinders that he talks about?

Russell Smith:
There are seven points of deflection or as he called them, centers of gravity.

Nicolas Tereshchenko:
Right, now which is the lengthened, which is the shortened, and which is the disharmonized stopinder in yours.

Russell Smith:
I look at it from the Absolute’s point of view. The quote is “…he lengthened the law conformable successiveness…” of one of the stopinders “…shortened it in another… and in a third, disharmonized it.”

Nicolas Tereshchenko:
No, he lengthened the third stopinder –

Russell Smith:
No sir, he lengthened the law conformable successiveness of the third stopinder. And that is the part that most people have overlooked; that Gurdjieff is talking about the lengthening that occurred to the law conformable “successiveness” of one of the stopinders. Then he goes on to say, the stopinder which he lengthened is between its third and fourth deflections; but he specifically precedes that by saying that the Absolute had to alter the stopinders. In fact you will find that printed in your little paper if you would like to follow along with me, it’s the third page in there; the changing of the laws. (Page 23 of my book) “These changes in the functioning of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh consisted in this, that in three of its Stopinders HE altered the, what are called ‘subjective actions’ which had been until then in the Stopinders, in this respect, that in one HE lengthened the law conformable successiveness; shortened it in another; and in a third disharmonized it.” So now I look at the event as seven stopinders in even succession, one after the other; from the Absolute down. And to me, to lengthen the law conformable successiveness would be to take one of those stopinders and move it away, further down the scale than where it was. The one that would be shortened would be the stopinder that was drawn closer, and the resultant of that is a stopinder that is disharmonized. If we take all the structure (See Figure 1) of other octaves and we lay this lengthening and shortening down, we find something very interesting: In an octave, DO-TI-LA-SO-FA-MI-RE-DO, when we study these oscillations that I talked about, we find that in every octave there is an oscillation that runs from DO to MI, there is an oscillation that runs from FA to LA, and there is an oscillation that runs from SO to TI; and suddenly two gaps appear in the process, between the MI-FA and the TI-DO intervals. And a third stopinder (between SO-LA) is trapped within two oscillations and knows neither whether to go with the higher or to go with the lower. And I see these three stopinders as the Mechano-coinciding; the Intentionally-actualized; and the point of Harnel-Aoot, the point of disharmony. I can take this dissertation and put it in the octave of sex (See Figure 2). Sex begins with a DO and sex ends with the formation of a higher body, which is also DO; it begins with the duplicating principle and it evolves to higher being. And in that division there are then six gradations: one is called instinctive, one is called moving, emotional, intellectual, higher emotional, and higher intellectual. And I find it very interesting that one oscillation connects the emotional center to the higher emotional center, another oscillation connects the intellectual center to the higher mental center, and the third oscillation connects movement to sex; and when I first replicated out all these octaves and saw this, it became very clear to me why these gaps appear in the structure: because as Gurdjieff called them, they are “obligatory-gap-aspects-of-the-unbroken-flowing-of-the-whole”; that is, they are gaps between oscillations. In the oscillation, it is easy for things to move up and down by the process of Harnelmiaznel alone, but then there is no oscillation connecting this part of the octave to the next part; and if things get to FA, they can again move by Harnelmiaznel all the way up to TI. As Gurdjieff said, if you play in a hermetically sealed room, the note TI on a piano, it can only evolve down to the lower FA and the note MI can only go down to the lower DO; that is, it can traverse only the areas that are encompassed by oscillations, but they cannot traverse the gaps unless there are shocks, where necessary. So when I took the octave of the Universe and said I must try and do what Gurdjieff told me I must do, that means I must take this stopinder, the third to the fourth deflection, and lengthen its law conformable successiveness, push it down farther away from where it was, and the moment that we lengthen that law conformable successiveness, all the diatonic ratios appear. I know Gurdjieff writes it to bury the dog, and he does say the stopinder was lengthened between its third and fourth deflection. That makes it sound like he’s lengthened something in between the third and fourth deflection, but if you read the previous paragraph, where he says it involved lengthening the law conformable successiveness, ah! The stopinder that was lengthened was the one between its third and fourth deflections; it is not that the lengthening occurred between the third and the fourth but it was the stopinder between the third and fourth that had been lengthened in the process, moved further away. And again, I don’t know, maybe this makes no sense, but if you do set the Universe up this way and do stretch the fabric of the Universe to line up with the forces, you do create the diatonic scale. You get the exact amount of movement that relates to the notes of the diatonic scale; and out of that you get the Fibonacci Series and the whole Universe. So maybe it is wrong, but it works. I tell you, many time I got to points in myself and I said, I don’t know…maybe I am just making this fit. But then when I got 40 or 50 things, finally I had to throw my arms up in utter frustration saying, I surrender, there are too many. Five of them, maybe I did it; ten of them, I was clever—I really manipulated it; but 50, 60 or a 100 of them, you get to a point where you say…and all you had to do was add, subtract, multiply and divide. It seems to me that God has a pretty simple system.

Unidentified:
If I have understood you correctly, you have been talking about all the changes after creation?

Russell Smith:
Right. Once the structure was altered it then became lined up with the forces and now this became the structure in which everything became replicated. Gurdjieff tells us that there is one triad that has all three forces united; and we can’t have that and so I don’t know about that one, because I can’t have it. But I can tell you about the one I got. I can tell you about the diatonic structure of me. I can tell you about my inner octaves. I can tell you how I know when to give a shock to my being and carry a straight line. Because I can taste it, I have studied it enough. I know when I hit the MI and I am at the gap; and I know that MI is where I must bring in the force. You see, we always look at this Enneagram as a symbol. In reality it is a diatonic structure; it is divided into thirds which represent the forces; and it is also divided into 1/8, 1 /4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, and 7/8. The triangle points line up with the diatonic structure, FA is at the force, and LA is at the other point of the triangle, at the force. It’s not something in between those two points. It actually is there. In order to over come the denying force, I have to look along the line 1 to 4 and identify the denying force that I am going to run into, which lets me begin back up here at MI, the point where the shock must come in, to create an octave, to create a shock, so that I can get by the denying force. If you calculate the three Holy forces at DO, LA, and FA as octaves (See Page 74 of my book and/or Figure 3) then you will see that MI, in the third octave, lines up exactly with the vibration DO 120 of the second, and SO lines up exactly with the vibrations DO 144 of the first. And so the formation coming down the Universe starts the octave at LA and FA; that is where the two octaves begin. But from the last guys point of view, to go back up, he must start those octaves at MI and at SO, exactly at the points where the shocks must be made; in other words, the way down reveals the way up. The way down shows how the forces are created at LA and FA. The way up shows that shocks must be created at MI and at SO to reproduce the same ladder, to remake the same structure on which things came down and then, by recreating the same structure, I can then work my way back up.

Dr. Keith Buzzell:
It would seem that on your diagram, before Creation, the Absolute harmonic would be a way of seeing autoegocrat. And on the right, trogoautoegorcrat. Now could you comment in that context, especially of autoegocrat, how you would understand or see that, even though it is perfect in its symmetry, it is not working. Because, as I mentioned this morning, Holy Sun Absolute was diminishing long before; this is a discovery that has been made by Endlessness. So what is it in the principle of autoegocrat, as you would see it, that implies that it is not working?

Russell Smith:
Autoegocrat, of course, translates into “myself I hold”. Which means, I need nothing from outside myself. And now we run into a serious problem, there is a problem in the Universe called decay; therefore anything that is not growing must be losing. And apparently Our Endlessness perceived that possibility. Here, I hold myself; but the planet, the Holy Sun Absolute on where I dwell, is subject to the process of decay and is diminishing. Therefore, if I could create something outside myself that can then flow back and enter into myself, I will overcome even the process of decay. Because as long as I am adding stuff, then even though things decay, I will always be increasing my volume; and therefore, will never be subject to the Merciless Heropass. Decay is now beyond possibility, because of the constant inflow that comes from the octaves created in the Universe. So now I eat myself and hold. I always look at the analogy like, here I am cold, so I cut down a tree and burn it for a fire. Pretty soon though I will have cut down all the trees and I won’t have a fire anymore; but if the fire gives light and makes the trees grow, then I can cut down the trees that grew by the light of the fire and burn them to continue the fire. And somehow there is a reciprocal maintenance. For now, the fire grows the trees and the trees get burned in the fire which grow the trees get burned in the fire. The trogooautoegocratic principle is manifest in the ansanbaluiazar of the common cosmic exchange of substances. That which is emanated out creates that which emanates back in and maintains its existence by eliminating the possibility of decay. Decay is a principle that is found everywhere in the Universe. Nothing outside of Our Endlessness is immortal; therefore it is all subject to demise unless there is some way of creating an influx of new material to replace the demise of the old material.

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