Welcome to a series of talks about objective consciousness, an objective Universe, and an objective way to awaken, expanding upon the works of George I. Gurdjieff and Russell A. Smith.

In today's podcast I will share with you a weekly class between Russell and several of his students, about the Hands in Motion exercise, what is Protoëhary and Ashagiprotoëhary, how to escape the Holy Planet Purgatory, the conservation of Mass and Energy, as well as the saga of Dark Matter and Dark Energy. 

Let’s begin.

Russell:  Welcome to class. Does anyone have any questions?

Student:  I have one on the Hands-In-Motion exercise, which is a mind-body thing, right?

Russell:  Yes, it is.

Student:  So, what exactly is the mind and body trying to tell each other or get from each other?

Russell:  Well, the Moving Center can do things much faster than the mind can. However, if the Moving Center slows down a bit, the mind may be able to participate in the movement. If it can, the Moving Center will more or less shake hands with the mind and say, “Hello, I did not know you were here.” 

Thus you start by rotating your hands very slowly, so that the mind can participate, and then you rotate your hands faster until the mind cannot. 

Student:  My second question is in reference to the will of the body, the will of the mind, and the will of the false personality. I have read reports where someone who was diagnosed with a terminal illness, laughed, read, changed their diet, or did other such things, and in some cases their terminal illness vanished. But how do we know that the machine would not have corrected itself anyway, because the machine is a miraculous thing? But then it dawned on me that no matter how many positive thoughts we have, it is still the will of the body or the will of the Instinctive Center that decides whether or not the body goes further.

Russell:  The Instinctive Center is certainly the mind behind our physiological processes, but it does many of those things automatically. That is, they happen without the participation of what we call our will. So, that being said, I don’t think we can put those occurrences in terms of will. 

The Instinctive Center's main concern is to counteract the forces that are contrary to its existence long enough for it to reach its potential. 

Does that answer your question? 

Student:  Yes, it does, Russ. Thank you.

However, I am curious as to one of the names that Gurdjieff gave to the notes in the food octave, as indicated in the following quote.

“I shall not enumerate the names of the large number of these independent ‘centers of gravity’ which become crystallized in all separate cosmoses, but shall indicate only the names of those definite ‘center-of-gravity active elements’ which become crystallized in each separate cosmos, and which have a direct relation with my following elucidations and, namely, those which are crystallized in the presences of Tetartocosmoses and have such a ‘temporarily independent center of gravity.’

In Tetartocosmoses the following names were given to these independent arisings:

1)   Protoëhary

2)   Defteroëhary

3)   Tritoëhary

4)   Tetartoëhary

5)   Piandjoëhary

6)   Exioëhary

7)   Resulzarion” 

I also remember Gurdjieff saying that all things that complete themselves do so with their seven Stopinders, which would certainly be in line with what you just said about the Instinctive Center holding back the forces which are contrary to it long enough for life to reach its potential. 

So my question is, is Protoëhary the note RE, or is Protoëhary between the notes DO and RE? 

And, if Gurdjieff was labeling the notes, why are there only seven labels and not eight, because octaves have eight notes.

Russell:  That is a good question. One that is fairly easy to answer. 

When food first entered the mouth, it immediately started to become Protoëhary, which was the label assigned to it when it entered the stomach; and as such, Protoëhary is both the note RE, and the stopinder DO-RE, as its transformation began immediately.

As to the notes only having seven labels and not eight, well technically, they do have eight. The label that was given to the note DO, when the process began, was Food. 

Student:  Thanks, Russ. The labels for the seven stopinders and the eight notes are now very clear to me. 

Okay, onto a somewhat related subject. In the following quote, Gurdjieff mentioned Ashagiprotoëhary.

       “And we are such Keschapmartnian beings because the last fundamental Stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh, which at the present time almost all the beings of the Megalocosmos call the sacred ‘Ashagiprotoëhary,’...”

Okay, my question is: Since Ashagiprotoëhary arises in the last fundamental Stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh, does that mean that there are two Protoëhary; one that arises in the TI-DO interval, and one that arises in the DO-RE interval? If so, or if not so, then what exactly is Ashagiprotoëhary?

Russell:  Good catch. The confusion arises because the last stopinder in an ascending octave is the TI-DO interval, whereas the last stopinder in a descending octave is the RE-DO interval. Thus, we must be vigilant, as to whether the octave is ascending or descending. And, with further observation, we will discover that Ashagiprotoëhary always refers to the last stopinder of a descending octave, which can be seen in the following quote, in the words ‘returning ascent.’ “When these evolving active elements, in their returning ascent from the last Stopinder of the fundamental common-cosmic Sacred Heptaparaparshinokh…” 

The words ‘returning ascent from the last Stopinder,’ clearly acknowledges the last Stopinder as being the DO-RE interval. 

Furthermore, Ashagiprotoëhary is from Farsi and Greek, and translates into, “Being in love is the first blessing.” Not the last blessing, but the first blessing, which is more indicative of the stopinder between DO and RE.

Student:  Okay, I get it. I got confused because it sounded like there was a second Protoëhary created between TI and DO. 

Russell:  No problem. 

Now, back to Ashagiprotoëhary. 

The Universe ends at the bottom DO of the 1s octave, a descending octave; and as such, the DO-RE interval of that octave becomes Ashagiprotoëhary for the Universe (see The Ray of Creation diagram and the Universal Cosmic Weave diagram). 

Student:  I must admit that I found Gurdjieff’s description, as to how the food octave worked, somewhat confusing at first; but, after studying your diagrams, which show all the octaves in the Universe, his description now makes perfect sense. 

Russell:  I am pleased that it does. 

Which is why The Ray of Creation diagram and the Universal Cosmic Weave diagram have been featured in so many of my podcasts. 

Diagrams are marvelous, because many of the things which occur in an octave are influenced by the things which occurred in other octaves. That is, having diagrams allows the information to be spread out across the page, thus, making it easier to visualize, understand, and comprehend. 

Does that answer your question?

Student:  Yes, very much so. Thank you.

Russell:  Any other questions?

Student:  Last night I was reading page 293 in Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson. Gurdjieff was talking about Asoochilons or saints, one of which had raised himself up to the highest level attainable, high enough that he had access to the Korkaptilnian thought tapes. It then made reference that he had to go to the Holy Planet Purgatory, even though he had reached the level of being a Marfotai, a man of light. So, my question is: at what point do we finally get off the Holy Planet Purgatory? That is, if he was a man of light who had access to the Korkaptilnian thought tapes, why would he have to go to the Holy Planet Purgatory at all?

Russell:  I do not know the answer to that question, because I do not know what he still needed to purge. However, his story sounds rather encouraging. That is, that someone can reach such a high level, and do so, even with some inexactitudes!

Student:  Does that mean, we have to stay on the Holy Planet Purgatory until we are completely purged, and only then go to the Holy Sun Absolute?

Russell:  Well, I am not sure that we have to be completely purged, just purged enough.

Student:  Just purged enough, like in your model of having 2/3?

Russell:  There you go. 

If we start with Gurdjieff’s model, where the beings who blended with the emanations coming from the Holy Sun Absolute, were later on found worthy of joining our Endlessness on the Holy Sun Absolute, and then add, how afterwards, their emanations mixed with the emanations coming from our Endlessness, and as such, the emanations now coming from the Holy Sun Absolute were no longer pure, as they contained inexactitudes, we may be able to comprehend why others thereafter were unable to reach the Holy Sun Absolute. 

Instead, they had to go to the Holy Planet Purgatory and purge those inexactitudes from their being. 

Student:  In reference to the emanations that come from the Holy Sun Absolute, does the conservation of mass and the conservation of energy still apply? That is, that mass and energy never disappear, but just change form? 

Russell:  Yes, it does.

Student:  If that is true, then how was it that the Holy Sun Absolute was diminishing in volume?

Russell:  Well, potential energy and kinetic energy can be switched back and forth, but when the energy manifests kinetically, it always produces some amount of heat, and once heat comes into the equation, there can be no switching back. And therefore, since there can be no switching back, the original amount of potential energy will be less. So, I guess, entropy is the culprit. 

Student:  Okay. I got it. Once you change things into heat, the heat will dissipate; and as such, although it is still there, you won’t be able to do anything with it. 

Russell:  Correct. But that does not answer your question. Your question only asked about the law of the conservation of mass and the law of the conservation of energy in relation to physical matter. But there are other matters out there as well; one is called Dark Matter and the other is called Dark Energy. 

To my knowledge, we do not know if the laws of conservation pertain to them. 

Maybe they were what was diminishing. If so, then perhaps by crystallizing them, their diminishment was halted. 

Student:  Wow, I hadn’t considered applying those two laws to Dark Matter and Dark Energy, only to physical matter. However, I now get it. For physical matter there is no diminishment, only dissipation, but for Dark Matter and Dark Energy, there just might be diminishment. But I do not know. 

Russell:  I do not know either. That is a tough one. 

However, so too is the creation of the Universe. 

Last night, another student and I were up until the wee hours of the morning asking just such questions. 

Here are some of the things we considered. 

We talked about what went bang, who made it go bang, why it went bang in the first place, as well as what etherokrilno was, and at the beginning, if everything was in one place, then it would have had more gravitational pull than a black hole, which even light can’t escape, and then it went bang and was able to eject things! How was that possible? 

We had fun entertaining other ideas. Such as, once it reached the size of an atom, gravity wanted to squish it even further, to where it would have no size at all, but at that moment it decided to rebel, as it did not want to be squished out of existence, and as such, it went bang and fled the scene. To which we laughed. 

So, even creation is a hard concept to fathom, let alone Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

We even talked about why the Holy Sun Absolute was diminishing in volume, and reasoned that perhaps decay was a property of the flow of time itself, which made Gurdjieff’s scenario seem very plausible. 

Fortunately in 1974, Hawking radiation was discovered, which supported Gurdjieff’s postulation. 

Hawking radiation was thermal radiation that was theorized to be released outside a black hole's event horizon, because of relativistic quantum effects. It was named after the physicist Stephen Hawking, who developed a theoretical argument for its existence. 

Hawking radiation reduces the mass and rotational energy of black holes, and is therefore also theorized to cause black hole evaporation. Because of this, black holes that do not gain mass through other means are expected to shrink and ultimately vanish. For all except the smallest black holes, this would happen extremely slowly.

Student:  Wow! That is cool. 

Russell:  I think so too.

Next we tackled Gurdjieff’s idea of how God separated the forces and then directed them outside of the Holy Sun Absolute, which also received support from scientific discovery. 

In 1979, theoretical physicist Alan Guth postulated that at the very beginning of the big bang, the entire Universe expanded exponentially, going from microscopic size to cosmic size at a speed faster than the speed of light!

Eureka! 

Perhaps that was how our Endlessness did it. He simply made things go faster than the speed of light, and as such, they were able to escape the black hole. That is, they were able to go from within the Holy Sun Absolute into the Universe.

All that being said, we were somewhat at a loss as to how to stop the Holy Sun Absolute from diminishing in volume, except for my postulation that we, as conscious human beings, are able to crystallize the Dark Matter and Dark Energy into Higher Being-bodies, one of which will rise and perhaps replenish the Holy Sun Absolute, which there is also some scientific evidence for. It comes in the form of Dark Energy. Dark Energy is the name given to a mysterious force that is causing the rate of the expansion of our Universe to accelerate over time, rather than to slow down, which is contrary to what one might expect from a Universe that began with a Big Bang. 

Astronomers in the 20th century learned that the Universe was expanding, but they did not know that it was accelerating. In fact, they thought, based on gravitational pull, the expansion might reverse itself and instead become a Big Crunch. 

Then, in the 21st century that idea evolved into, “Crikey, the expansion is accelerating.” 

What would cause the rate of expansion to go against gravity and accelerate they asked? Thus, they conceived a repulsive force called Dark Energy, as a possible way of understanding it.

Student:  Oh my God, Russ. That is just brilliant. 

Earlier, when you began talking about life and its tenaciousness, and about the three types of energy, I was hooked! Then, when you explained Gurdjieff’s Food octave, Purgatory, black hole evaporation, and inflation, I went from being hooked, to being committed. After which, when you revealed how it was up to us to stop the Holy Sun Absolute from diminishing in volume, I went from being committed, to forever being dedicated. So, thank you, Russ. 

Russell:  You are most welcome.

There are three matters in the Universe: physical matter, Astral Matter and Mental Matter, of that, I am absolutely sure.  

Unfortunately, physical matter is the only matter that most people know about, because it is the only one that they can touch, it is the only one that they can weigh, it is the only one that they can look at, and it is the only one that they can measure. However, I am confident that the other two matters exist as well, even though they have no physical properties; and as such, are subject to different laws. Laws which cause the Highest Being-body to rise, and for both higher bodies to be immortal. 

But, as far as concepts go, those are some big concepts, some of which are very hard to fathom. 

Fortunately, most of our previous concepts were just about working on ourselves. That is, they were about inner world stuff. 

However, Gurdjieff gave us some outer world stuff as well. It went from a dissertation on creation, to a trinity of laws, to the separation of the forces, which provided us with a model that allowed us to comprehend our true meaning and significance. As well as gave us insight as to what might happen beyond, which at present we may not be able to comprehend, but because of it, we have a greater certainty that there is indeed a beyond. 

Student:  Right now, in my physical life, I have the opportunity of experiencing the result of my choices. However, when I no longer have a physical body, but perhaps a Kesdjan one, what kind of feedback will I have then? Feedback, in terms of knowing whether or not I am going in the right direction. Is it then kind of a thought exercise?

Russell:  Well, let me put it this way. Once you have unified the three lower centers of your physical body, awakened, and further developed that awakening, the Kesdjan-body will begin to crystallize because the Kesdjan body is a by-product of your Higher Emotional Center, of your higher being. 

That is, when your three lower centers begin working together as one, they will produce in you both conscience and a higher state of consciousness; and as such, your conscience will let you know what the right thing to do is, and your higher state of consciousness will enable you to do it. 

That being said, when the Kesdjan body becomes fully crystallized, it acquires those properties. That is, the properties of both conscience and consciousness; and as such, when the physical body dies, those properties will forever remain in your Kesdjan body. Thus, you will still know what is right to do, and will still be able to do it. And, when that happens, you will not only have the feedback that you seek, but you will also know for certain whether or not you are heading in the right direction.

Student:  That is exactly what I wanted to know, Russ. And, on top of that, it makes perfect sense too. 

Russell:  I am very pleased that it does. 

Okay. I will end today’s class by saying that the higher bodies are available to every one of us. And again reiterate that they are not subject to the laws of physics. That is, the Highest Being-body rises, which means that it does not obey the law of gravity; gravity can’t hold it down. There isn’t anything else on this planet that can make that claim; one gas may rise above another gas because it is lighter, but not because it opposes the law of gravity. All things seek their own level, just like cream always rises to the top, and Hydrogen always rises above Helium, which is based on physical properties 

However, the Highest Being-body also rises, but not because it is lighter than the other matters, but because it opposes gravity. It may be subject to gravity in its unorganized state, but once it crystallizes, it opposes gravity. 

For me, I sure hope that what we have been discussing is true. I sure hope that there is something in me that can withstand the shock of death. I sure hope that my consciousness, whatever that is, will still continue to exist after my physical body dies. And, I sure hope that in the future, we will be able to have Astral classes and Mental classes as well! 

I know those are big hopes. Some of which require big questions, as well as, big answers. 

While we are alive, some of those questions may never get answered. Nevertheless, we should still keep asking them. Not because we will get answers, but because we will be enlivened when we do. 

So, I will keep on trying to fathom why there are hundreds of billions of galaxies out there, each with hundreds of billions of stars. 

And then I ask, “Where does that place us?”  

Well, I guess, that places us - written in the stars.

That completes today’s podcast.

Thank you for listening.

If you have any questions that you would like answered, please send them to [email protected], and we will endeavor to answer them, and perhaps ... even include them in a future podcast.  

In addition, you may now pose questions at our new Telegram group THEDOG Teachings, which is open to everyone to join and participate in.

You may also find us on Instagram at THEDOG Teachings, where we have posted all of Gurdjieff’s Aphorisms and THEDOG school’s DOG TALES, as well as simple explanations of many diagrams and models.

Or if you would like to purchase Russell Smith’s book, The Blueprint of Consciousness, a 520-page hardback, which is also available for PDF download, or learn more about the subjects and exercises we have been exploring, you can do so by going to thedogteachings.com.

That’s T H E D O G teachings DOT COM.

There, you will be able to listen to other talks, obtain diagrams, animations, supporting videos, and much, much more.

But most importantly, you will have real time access to the materials we are discussing.

That’s thedogteachings.com

Goodbye, until next time.