S2/EP17: There are no such things as descending octaves

Podcast Series 2, Episode 17 There are no such things as descending octaves

A short discussion further describing the nature of octaves in this Universe, and why, despite natural oscillations in life cycles, none of them actually descend. 

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Episode 17 There are no such things as descending octaves.

This is a series of talks about objective consciousness, an objective universe, and an objective way to wake up.

It is primarily based on the works of George I. Gurdjieff and Russell A. Smith, and aims to cut through the swathes of subjectivity that cloud our evolution and journey through life. 

Each episode in this series focuses upon a particular element of their teachings and aims to bring simple understanding to what was frequently hidden in plain sight within the various subject areas of the Fourth Way.

In our last talk I revealed the identity of the fellow in Texas and told you his story. 

In this discussion, we will listen-in as Mr. Smith describes why there are no descending octaves. We touched on this in episode 14, but it’s such an important idea, let’s dig a little deeper.

Here’s what he says:

“Try to grasp the concept that all octaves in the Universe are ascending octaves. There are no descending octaves.

“There are oscillations – where things can go up and down – like a tree, which grows leaves and then loses those leaves, repeating this cycle year after year.

“Gurdjieff called it, ‘The push and the pause’.

“During the ‘push’ an ascending octave begins. And, with the assistance of water and sunlight (MI and SO), it will complete itself and produce a seed. Then, the tree ‘pauses’ and goes dormant until next season. After which it, again, ‘pushes’ an ascending octave up to seed production.

“The growth of the tree is an ascending octave but the tree never descends. Only its annual cycle, of seed production and dormancy, ascends and descends.

“Elements are created. They are not de-created. Organic life grows. It does not de-grow. Gold will never work it’s way back to Hydrogen… and the apple tree will never go backwards and become a sapling.

“Things do not descend. They ascend… and, if something ceases to ascend, other things, which are still trying to ascend, eat it.

“A student asked, ‘Are the 19 outer octaves in the Universal Cosmic Weave the only descending octaves?’ Mr. Smith replied, ‘It may look that way, but even they are not descending octaves… I shall try to explain.’

“There was a big bang and the forces were separated into 19 places, a mathematical matrix of 5/6 and 2/3… and, simultaneously, became the DO’s of the octaves in the Universe.

“However, we want to see them as independent things – created sequentially – but they are not.

“Try to imagine creation. Let’s begin with three forces, if we can comprehend the separation of 3 forces, we may be able to comprehend the separation of 19.

“The three forces are going to be separated and placed at the thirds of something… but let’s add this twist: Think of a point in the center of a circle. The point explodes into three forces. The three forces go in 3 different directions (120 degrees from each other, i.e., likes repel). They hit the circle in three different places at the same time, segmenting it into thirds. 

When the three forces were all at the same place, they all had the same math (whatever that math was) but, when they were separated and hit the circle, they each had different math. Math, in the ratio 12, 10, and 8.

“When they were all in the same place, they all saw themselves as the ‘12.’ Surprisingly, after they were separated, they continued to see themselves as the ‘12,’ even though they each had different maths.

That is, one force, the one that was actually at the 12, saw the other two forces at the 10 and the 8. Another force, the one at the 10, which still believed itself to be the 12, saw the other two forces as a 9.6 and a 14.4. And, the remaining force, the one at the 8, which thought it was the 12, saw the other two forces as a 15 and an 18. Thus, relativity was created.

“Now, do that with the 19 forces. 

“Each one, exploding simultaneously from a single point and hitting the circle (or spiral, or sphere, if you prefer) at the same time. 

“All seeing the Universe relative to itself, thinking it is the ‘12’, but all having different maths.

“End result: The outer matrix is fixed… and the forces expand as the Universe expands. Afterwhich, creation proceeds via ascending octaves.

“But, our minds have trouble grasping the idea that the separation of forces is simultaneous. It wants to see it as a linear process, ‘It started here and then went there and there, etc.,’ – supporting what, mathematically, sure looks like descending octaves.

“However, the 19 outer octaves simply represent the different energy levels of an atom, and determine the order in which it fills with electrons.

“So, we are not talking about independent forces. We are talking about the orbitals of an atom, each of which, as we go out from the nucleus, is at a higher energy level.

“But, as I explained, we want to see them as independent forces… not as orbitals, i.e., as the ‘in potentia’ of where electrons can exist in the atomic world of atoms. 

“Note: In potentia: adverb. As a possibility; potentially. ‘This is so because the waveform exhibits interference effects, meaning that ALL these states exist in potentia.’ ‘…many forms exist, so to speak, in potentia.’

“If you still see descending octaves, it is my fault. 

“I am the guy who proved that separated forces are at three-thirds, two-thirds, and one-third of the whole, at 6/6, 5/6, and 4/6, and I am the guy who revealed the math of the matrix into which they propagated, ⅚ to the 7th and ⅔ cubed. 

“I am also the guy who defined how inner octaves and the outer octaves constructed the Enneagram, created the elements, and made the Shock Octaves… the necessary ‘assisters’ for ascension. 

“Fortunately, I am also the guy who discovered how a man can awaken while alive and continue to exist after death.

“But, I also see how folks can interpret the matrix that flowed out of the Absolute as a bunch of descending octaves.

“So, if they still look that way to you… so be it.

“The good news is, we do not need descending octaves to envision creation… only to ‘mathematically’ understand it. 

“In truth, it is just a matrix ‘in potentia’ that determines where the elements of the physical Universe can exist.



“You should know that the elements in the physical Universe are pretty much immortal. Protons live for a third of a google number of years, a 1 followed by 33 zeros, which sounds pretty much immortal to me. 

“Such immortality gave the elements ample time to create the world of organic life, which… is not immortal. However, it just might be able to create – in a finite amount of time – something that is. 

“But first, it must oscillate. Next, it must produce replicas that can also oscillate… to stave off the merciless heropass, which is the relentless flow of time, itself. 

“While those harmonic oscillations hold back the merciless heropass, some of them will go extinct, some of them will remain in their primordial form, some of them will mutate and create new things, and some of them will fix the higher matter into a form which can transcend its own oscillating existence, and, thereafter, become the immortal elements of higher-being-bodies.

“‘Gone. Gone beyond. Gone beyond beyond. Hail the goer!’


“Finally, after the matrix ‘in potentia’ comes into existence, and after the immortal elements are created… we, as men of reason, learn that in the ‘similarities to the already arisen,’ octave formation is infinite.

“That is, you can create an infinite number of octaves there… which, in relation to each other, are also outer octaves… octaves of birds, bugs, bacteria, grandpas, grandmas, mothers, fathers, sunlight, wind, rain, soil, etc., each of whom influences many others.

“All things exist amongst a vast number of other things that also exist.

“Some of them will stop things; some of them will assist things; and some of them will spank things (at least my dad did… but, only when I acted non law-conformably).

“So, my advice, ‘Don’t act non law-conformably!’”

OK. That should give you a lot to contemplate.

Thank you for listening, and, if you’d like to know more about the subjects and exercises we’ve been covering, including the book and guide that underpins it all, and, how we work with it; or, if you would like to obtain diagrams of the structure, as well as, learn the math which supports it, you can find us at The Dog Publishing, at the website The Dog Pub Dot Com. That’s T H E D O G P U B DOT COM

I hope you find it useful

Goodbye until next time.

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